My article about the postal service got an unusually robust amount of play among the blogosphere, so I thought I’d respond to some of the comments.
First of all, I think there’s wide agreement on the left that the postal service doesn’t actually have a funding problem at the current time. This recent default stems entirely – entirely – from a 2006 postal reform law, back from when Republicans still held the House and Senate. The law included a ludicrous requirement, unseen in any other government organization, and really unseen in any company period, that the postal service prefund their pension benefits for the next 75 years through a $5.5 billion annual payment. Currently, the postal service has about $45 billion in that account. If they didn’t have that requirement, they would be in the black.
The requirement has drastically harmed the functions of the agency, which is used by almost every American. In July, USPS began closing offices around the country to meet the annual payment. By the time current downsizing plans are completed in 2014, Americans will see 229 processing plants closed and 28,000 jobs lost. In June, ten USPS employees launched a multi-day hunger strike to protest the cuts.
Without the pension payment, USPS would have a $1.5 billion surplus instead of a $20 billion shortfall. “[T]hese ongoing liquidity issues unnecessarily undermine confidence in the viability of the Postal Service among our customers,” said USPS spokesman David Partenheimer.
The USPS has actually overpaid into one of its pension funds by $11 billion, the exact cost of their 2011 and 2012 required pension payments. The Senate already passed a bipartisan bill that would deal with this by loosening the requirement and lowering the annual payment. This is a completely manufactured crisis and just adopting the Senate bill, which also returns the $11 billion overpayment, would end the insolvency chatter. The whole thing is part of a scheme to send the postal service into privatization, and send that massive, multi-billion dollar pension fund into the waiting arms of a corporate entity that would love to raid it and toss it into their treasury.
So we all agree on that. Long-term, there has been a slowdown in mail delivery and that presents challenges for the postal service. I suggested diversification of its service portfolio, such as through postal banking (a common service in other countries) or getting into the broadband market. Matt Yglesias notes that this would only harm community banks and credit unions, which compete on simple banking. I’m not sure that’s totally true – the megabanks still carry a vast market share (not everyone has moved their money yet) – but I take the point. Still, this all assumes that there’s no room for growth in this sector. Because the likely targets for a public option for simple banking are not those who already have a bank, but the unbanked (in much the same way that the public option would have been attractive to the uninsured). There are millions of unbanked Americans, and they are getting absolutely hammered by payday lending and the check-cashing industry. If they had a simple banking option, right at the post office in the center of town, I think it could be attractive to them. What’s more, it would be extremely useful to the economy, as all that usurious money poured into goosing the profits of the check-cashing and payday lending industries would instead stay in the pockets of people who will spend it.
Now, Kevin Drum says that this is a pipe dream, that the USPS couldn’t possibly compete with existing banks. He says that postal banks work elsewhere because they’ve been around forever, and that there isn’t the expertise at our post office to compete. Well, really simple banking correlates to what the post office already does – hold stuff for people. In this case they would hold money. And since I don’t think the postal service should go into derivatives or even do lending, I don’t think a lot of expertise is necessary. Just hold money for people, give them the ability to withdraw money on a debit card, and invest the funds in safe instruments like Treasuries, and make money on the spread. Seems possible to me. As for whether they can gain market share, again I think the competition here is the services to the unbanked, which are completely unscrupulous, and there’s a lot of possibility to offer a far better deal. The only way to find out is to try.
As for broadband, while it seems like a natural evolution, I do agree that there’s an expertise problem here. The postal service has the second-largest workforce in the country, but not necessarily one primed for broadband construction. So that would require a real shift in their workforce. I’d like to see more study here, because we really have a need for better broadband services – our Internet is really crappy – and the postal service would be well-positioned to pick up some grants to carry out that mission.
Matt Yglesias makes a separate point, that we don’t need universal flat-rate service from a public entity. I think that as long as we still have a digital divide, we need universal service, and without the flat-rate guarantee, the same people on the wrong side of that digital divide would be the ones who get hurt – cutting the postal service inevitably hurts poor areas the most. I also agree with Drum:
…It really does seem as if universal service is an important function, and I’ve never believed that a private post office would provide it. A private USPS would provide differential pricing up to a point, with small towns having higher postal rates than big cities, but there would be plenty of places left that are just flatly unprofitable. At any reasonable postal rate they’d be money losers, and at very high rates they’d get so little use that they’d still be money losers. There would literally be no rate at which they’d be profitable to service.
Now, maybe that’s OK. Maybe you could privatize the postal service with a requirement that they either deliver to an address or provide a free PO box for delivery and pickup. Unfortunately, this would work only if the privatized post office retained its monopoly status on first class mail, which means you’d lose all the benefits of competition. What’s more, you’d almost certainly still be left with a pretty fair number of people who effectively have no mail delivery, since a private operator would probably shut down thousands of small post offices, leaving some customers with a 30-mile drive or more to pick up their mail.
That’s pretty much right. This is still an important function, and there are ways to make it even better.





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Good post David. Here’s an interesting factoid in the “public vs. private” debate, which usually comes out as “Oh Fedex is so much more efficient than the postal service.” Fedex uses the Postal Service for 30% of its ground shipments. Now what would happen to Fedex’s prospects if they paid a decent defined benefit pension plan and funded it decades in advance?
Anyone, like Yglesias, that wants to get rid of the USPS is either a dupe or clueless. Has Big Media Matt lived anywhere but big cities(Boston, NYC, DC) his whole life?
Thanks for keeping up with this, David. The predators are out to consume everything.
How long do you think it would be before they started using the “bank deposits” to cover operating expenses — a la the Social Security “Trust Fund”?
As for the FedEx habit of relying on the USPS, what’s to stop the Postal Service from raising the rates it charges FedEx until it’s solvent again? Or raising the price of stamps, for that matter. They’ve got a monopoly on ordinary mail, for Heaven’s sake, and they can’t set the price high enough to cover their expenses? This is not a compelling argument for the public-service model.
All I receive in the mail is advertisements, circulars and bills.
I send little.
It seem to me the major customers of the Post Office are businesses, and the most important mail I receive bills.
In other words, the Post Office is essential for commerce.
Don’t get me started on ground delivery of packages. USPS beats Fedex Ground and UPS ground all hollow.I always ask that my packages be shipped USPS, because who knows when it will show up (Fedex) or in what shape (UPS)
And Texan99 is deliberately avoiding the real issue, that the USPS shortfall has nothing to do with the cost of mailing things, but a whole lot to do with republican congressional attempts to kill USPS.
Maybe I’m just clueless but I don’t understand how the lives of the 1% would be improved by closing USPS. What on earth are they thinking? Makes no sense.
A note on GIROs (Post Office based banking).
The tradition banking we all know is a debt transfer system (a check is a promissory note).
European Post Office banking is a credit transfer system. Bounced checks and kiting are impossible in a credit transfer system.
The 1% haven’t thought this out. How will they get their Gourmet Living, American Express Travel Magazine, Paris on $2,000 a Day, Cruising the Mediterranean, LIfe Aboard the QEII, American Polo, Mercedes Benz Monthly, Porsche USA, Vacation Homes in Nice, Enjoy Gstaad………
IMO, this is another sign that the powers that be are not concerned about the welfare of the 99%. Those Postal jobs bring income to rural communities too. And, the Post Office is a community social center where people see their neighbors, do the democratic waiting in line to get to the clerk at the window, and get the best service their government can provide. If the Postal service is more about helping people to send letters, packages, buy Money Orders, certify that they sent communications, get mail from a P.O. box and so on……than it is is about running a service as a commodity, then why can’t they run a deficit if they want to. This is a government service, not a ‘business’. If government was a business, we could fire the idiot CEOs in Congress who pushed this idea of closing Offices in rural areas.
The PO’s ability to raise stamp prices is limited, by Congress, I believe.
My particular objection to all the “who needs the Post Office, anyway” blather is I do. I get a lot of my prescriptions and all of my supplements online and all of them travel to my doorstep USPS. Paying the private carriers would likely raise the price to me and I’m scrimping as it is.
There are an awful lot of selfish, heedless I’ve-got-mine-fuck-yous whose reported misfortunes wouldn’t turn any of my hairs.
I may be waaay out of lien herem but all Isee at my local post office employee parking are brand new Acuras, Lexuses,BMW’s and Camaros.
Depends on where they’re invested.
???
Maybe this more on Jon Walker’s beat, but there’s always giving it the franchise on selling cannabis. :o)
Curious thing about a Postal Bank.
1. USPS budget is not part of the debt ceiling (though as a govt corp, its earnings belong to Uncle Sam),
2. The old Postal Savings Bank was guaranteed by Tsy, not the FDIC.
3. Deposit accounts of any size (not just $250,000 FDIC cap) would be backed by full faith and credit of US Govt.
4. There’s no practical reason the govt couldn’t finance deficits with Postal Bank Certificates of Deposit instead of Treasury bonds. Funny how its bad that the govt has trillions in debt but its good that banks have trillions in deposits– six of one, half of a dozen of the other. The govt should definitely go back to selling CDs. :o)
http://www.rickety.us/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Postal_Savings_Certificate_of_Deposit_1941.jpg
Agreed. A functioning USPS is essential. I honestly don’t expect them to make money but they should be able to function with manageable losses if they make some cuts and raise some prices.
My letter carrier himself said lots of those people are way overpaid, underworked, and have enormous pensions.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
While our mailing habits are undoubtedly changing, there’s nothing wrong with the USPS that some minor adjustments won’t fix, once you get the onerous advance pension payment system corrected.
I also totally agree with the banking suggestion, in fact I already use them for money orders for payments I don’t want to share my personal banking information with. Yes, it costs $1 or so, but I don’t have to worry about my debit card, credit card or checking account information being compromised.
Criminy! The Post office dates back to Ben Franklin!!
I say repeal the Post Office Reorganization Act (thanks Tricky Dick!) and re-instate the Post Office as a governmental office, pure and simple, with no expectation of it making ends meet. Not unless we also start requiring the DoD to break even as well.
-stewartm
DD going postal! Who’d of thunk!
My cousin worked for the PO for several decades, the last 10 years or so as a Post Master at a rural PO in North Jersey, and I can tell you she was not overpaid. Quite the opposite. Your letter carrier sounds angry and spiteful, a know nothing complaint about people s/he doesn’t know but who s/he’s sure are sucking up millions. By my cousin’s description, very few people in the PO make money commensurate with the work and the ungodly stress. She detested her boss but she never said he was overpaid. She always knew he was a screaming bitch at least in part because of the unrelenting pressure from his bosses.
These arguments over a public service that provides terrible service at a horrible price (like the public schools) always degenerate at some point into the observation that, if nothing else, they’re providing well-paying jobs to deserving people, so lay off, mean conservatives! But I admit that it’s a new one on me to argue that the bad service is a good thing, because it unites citizens in the democratic activity of standing around in line.
I looked up the business about FedEx relying on the USPS for a large fraction of its deliveries. FedEx offers a bundling service under which it puts together various kinds of junk mail, then runs them all through the Post Office at bulk-mail rates. No voters, conservative or otherwise, care if this service continues or dies out. I was surprised to learn that in 2001 the USPS contracted out to FedEx all of the USPS’s overnight and express deliveries. (Wikipedia) Now, which organization seems to depend more heavily on the other?
When UPS and FedEx fully fund their retirement contributions years in advance and charge the shipping rates necessary to do so, then I will believe “government should operate like a business”.
The idea of US Postal Bank is something I find interesting and attractive on its face. I would like to know more. I know for decades Japan had such a thing and it did offer services much needed by many of citizens urban and rural.
Dog bless you, David Dayan.
It’s about time all of blogistan knows what
a treasure you are at setting the record straight.
Point taken.
Such a personal gripe is not credible, and I don’t believe it. “Overpaid and underworked” based on observations/audits of what other industry? “Enormous pensions” compared to what? How much do FedEx or UPS executives and managers get by comparison?
When you look at the vast amount of material the USPS handles, and the very reasonable costs, you have to admit they’re doing an amazing job.
Many small businesses have depended on bulk mail for direct advertising, so you are totally wrong that voters don’t care if this service dies out.
“As for the FedEx habit of relying on the USPS, what’s to stop the Postal Service from raising the rates it charges FedEx until it’s solvent again? Or raising the price of stamps, for that matter. They’ve got a monopoly on ordinary mail, for Heaven’s sake, and they can’t set the price high enough to cover their expenses? This is not a compelling argument for the public-service model.”
What is stopping them is Congress. COngress has to approve of all rate increases. COngress pretty much has to approve of everything the Postmaster General proposes.
Fedex makes a billion and a half dollars a year handling some USPS deliveries (which is its largest customer), and it is quaking in its boots that it will soon lose this contract, which it recently warned the SEC would have a “negative impact on our asset utilization and profitability.” The USPS is introducing more competitive bidding, which it should have done a decade ago. If USPS really started competing with Fedex and UPS, the latter would start squealing like stuck pigs and have their armies of lobbyists all over Congress in a minute.
FWIW my local post office does a terrific job at cheaper prices than Fedex and UPS.
Ha. Try putting that one to a popular vote. “Save Junk Mail!” will not make a compelling bumper sticker any more than “Get to Know Your Neighbors While Hanging Out in Line at the Post Office!”
“These arguments over a public service that provides terrible service at a horrible price (like the public schools) always degenerate at some point into the observation that, if nothing else, they’re providing well-paying jobs to deserving people, so lay off, mean conservatives! But I admit that it’s a new one on me to argue that the bad service is a good thing, because it unites citizens in the democratic activity of standing around in line”
You cannot be serious? Terrible service at a terrible price? USPS is far cheaper than UPS or FedEX and they deliver faster as well. Just compare UPS ground to USPS Priority mail. USPS wins hands down and USPS delivers on Saturdays for free. Plus you can mail a letter anywhere in the country for 45 cents. How much would FedEX chanreg for that? 5 bucks maybe? If you want a stark comparison look at International Priority Mail compared to FedEX of DHL. It is 1/3 the price. MILLIONS of small businesses depend on USPS for cost effective shipping. Without it they would go under. Think man, think.
So what was stopping Congress when the Dems controlled it? Are both parties out to get the poor Post Office?
No doubt FedEx would hate to lose the revenue. No doubt the USPS would hate to start delivering its overnight packages again. Sounds like an opportunity to negotiate. I don’t see that either member of this partnership is taking unfair advantage of the other, or competing on an uneven playing field, just because they’re making money off each other by specializing in their peculiar areas of expertise. That’s what people are supposed to do. The only uneven part of this playing field is the USPS’s partial monopoly.
ENacting the prepay rule was a law – an act of Congress, rescinding it would also have to be a law. And we have seen 100% obstruction by COngress. No surprise there that nothing has gotten better.
I fully admit that without reservation.
Just a thought. This provision for prefunding was carried out by the GOP when they controlled both houses of congress and the executive. What did the Democrats do when they controlled all three branches of government? They allowed commissions to go forward that aim to dismantle the safety net for most Americans and they did nothing at all to correct the excesses committed under Bush.
IOW, blame everyone in congress, not just the sociopaths in the GOP.
Hey, I’m not the one who argued that it was healthy for the body politic if people had to stand in line together at the Post Office. Take it up with TomThumb.
I probably confused matters by saying “a terrible service at a terrible price” when I really meant “a terrible service or a terrible price.” (Terrible service for the USPS; terrible service and/or price for other state monopolies.) I don’t know what the market price would be for ordinary mail, because the monopoly prevents anyone else from trying. The prices for package and express delivery are reasonably comparable, but the USPS tends to be slower, has much worse service at the teller’s window, has way below-market tracking capability, and (unlike private carriers) refuses to deliver door to door. I don’t enjoy driving 10 miles to get my USPS packages when FedEx and UPS will bring them to my porch at little or no extra charge.
Anybody who didn’t just fall off a turnip truck knows the Dems are just as complicit in hobbling the USPS as the Republicans. But there are also a few Dems who are defending it, while zero Republicans are except those shaken out of their Tea Party torpor and mindlessness because they live in rural districts and shutting local post offices might bite them in the rear at election time.
Re Fedex, you can bet they were gouging the USPS with decade of overcharges if they’re so terrified of competing for and losing the contract now. Wonder how that contract got negotiated and overseen. Wouldn’t be any corporate lobbying in that award, now would there be? Probably USPS could just insource overnight at a way cheaper price, but then of course the “free marketeers” would be squealing about competition from the USPS.
probably confused matters by saying “a terrible service at a terrible
What? No door to door? Where do you live? Nome, Alaska? We know the USPS can deliver any letter anywhere for 45 cents because they break even at that price. That is one HUGE reason we enjoy such low prices – no profit motive. Without the USPS *you* are screwed just like the rest of us.
Once a year, my cousin the Post Master had to trudge into the central mail facility to “count mail,” a volume audit procedure. Took, as I remember, about a week. She was also reluctantly familiar with the main facility of NYC. By her description, those facilities are hellholes and she grimly admitted she wouldn’t have lasted a couple of weeks. The pace, the working conditions, the workloads………… Just enervating.
Uhhh, Fedex pays USPS to deliver their packages. Not the other way around. Without the USPS they would not be able to deliver to a great many places they do now.
Haven’t you rather lost the thread of your “blame the GOP” argument here? It’s getting harder to see the difference between the two parties on this issue. Maybe the problem has another source?
Yes of course, but the issue is how much Fedex pays USPS for delivering its packages. The reason they’re afraid of losing the contract is because they will probably be underbid now. The gouging involved would be if they underpaid.
No, just outside a city. We get ordinary mail here just fine, but packages all get held at the Post Office in town — unless they come by UPS or FedEx, who drive right up to the house without experiencing whatever mysterious difficulty it is that hampers the U.S. mailman. It’s hard for me to see how I’d be “screwed” without him. Practically nothing I’m interested in receiving ever comes by ordinary mail any more. If you got rid of the junk mail, the mailbox almost always would stand empty.
Who cares if they do? Some other company will pick the contract up. That’s how bidding is supposed to work. I don’t see the problem.
The GOP has been running a two decade campaign to privatize and kill off public services even where they’re more efficient and cheaper–and they’re trying to do it now with healthcare and social security. So they deserve every bit of blame. They’re ruining the country out of greed and stupidity. And to repeat, those corporate Dems that have fallen in with this Thatcherite agenda they deserve a share of the blame. To repeat again, if USPS wasn’t forced to prepay its pension obligations they would be in much better shape. Privatize it and you’ll see rates shoot through the roof, post offices shut down, and the Fred Smiths of this world buying more and more mansions.
Two decades? The first attack I can remember against the USPS came in the early 70s when Tricky was still in office.
I have a small business reparing and manufacturing a certain kind custom specialty electronic equiptment. All of my sales are mail order. As a matter of course i started with UPS (abominibal, expensive service), I used Fed Ex – Not as bad as UPS but cost makes it not worth using for any shippment under 5 lbs.. I have setteled on USPS exclusively, in thousands of shipments over 10 yuears time i have NEVER lost money or customers on a shipment. 80% of my customers ask for USPS..”privatization”, that is our unreporesentative govt handing over another valuable and needed service of govt, which belongs to the people, to freinds and donaters, should INFURIATE any American citizen, whether you are aware you need the PO or not. ALL of the arguments for privatization are false. If we lose the post office, the private carriers service will become EVEN MORE expensive and limited, not less so. This is a possible CATASTROPHE.
iggy is a dupe AND clueless
Its becasue you live in a redneck hell hole called texas. in such places they wont pay to hire anyone to drive packages to your house. Fedex and the big brown turd are charging more for the shipment. you probably didnt pay for the shipment so you arent really up on the cost thing.
Solerso, to each his own. I’ve been sending and receiving packages all my adult life, too, including a good many that were crucial for my business. We’ve obviously had a different experience. I wouldn’t dream of depriving you of the carrier you prefer, but I do draw the line at subsidizing its money-losing operations.
If the problem really is that we are unfairly forcing the USPS to have a fully funded pension plan instead of the usual defined-contribution Ponzi scheme, that’s a sad commentary. Why should we all get cheaper mail service just so some poor mailman can get screwed out of his pension when he’s too old to replace it? That’s what “no pre-pay” pension schemes mean. At least let’s give the poor guy a chance to work somewhere else between now and retirement, so he has some hope of a pension to replace the Social Security checks he’s never going to see.
“you” arent “subsidzing” anyone..PO operations are payed for ENTIRELY by the sales of thier products. AS a matter of fact, the PO has been the cash cow for greedy thieves in congress, NOT the other way round…I really dont care about your politics “to each his own”..But stop spreading lies ..its bad enough your kind think everyone owes them money, you all have to lie your asses off to try to cheat me out of mine.. and for WHAT? what are you getting for your free lip-to-zipper service for freemarket theives and ideologues who would gladly sell your children into slavery if they could legally collect a profit for doing it..or at least not get caught doing it,
but your last comment to me really gives you away..at the moment , this is really about breaking up another Public sector Union…you people are so transparent when you really have to deal with true facts, and not just the talking points you recived in your john birch newsletter
Postal service can do a lot of things, but politicians won’t let it. They would be competing with private enterprise, and that means, because it would be less expensive it would destroy the competition. If you will notice, apart from mail, which is probably least profitable part of mail delivery, the package service has been taken over by UPS and FEDEX. And this is only because they have been forced by Washington to do so. I think that left alone USPS would be quite profitable, but this is not what is desired by our politicians. After all, can you post office lobbyists wining and dining our politicians? Lets give back the basic business of delivering mail and packages to the USPS without political meddling, and see how they compete with the other 2 if left unconstrained.
Uh-huh. And I imagine the trunks are filled with t-bone steaks purchased by strapping young bucks with
food stampsenormous government pensions.Good, make that four decades, though the real privatization stuff started under Carter and was then ramped up by Reagan (and let’s not forget Clinton’s “the era of big government is over,” when he–and Gore–took a meat axe to public service and brought the corporations in).
Seeing’s how this has been a two-income per household economy for thirty years did you ever stop to think maybe the other halves of these workers also contribute some shekels to the pot? And if you haven’t been paying attention the cars you mention can be leased at reasonable prices.
Yep, Carter and Ted Kennedy worked to deregulate airlines, trucking, utilities. Just more evidence that both parties have been working together for a long time to screw the rest of us.
solerso, I can’t agree with your statement “PO operations are payed for ENTIRELY by the sales of thier products.” That would be true only if you don’t include the cost of labor and benefits in “operations.” If the PO isn’t broke, what’s the problem?
Please, allow me to help you with this one – read Dayens post. In 2006 the PO was saddled with a riduculous and unnecessry mandate-one that dosent exist anywhere else, for any other agency public or private..do YOU have to pay your bills out into the future for 75 Years?? of course not, neither do i, NO ONE DOES!!( Even though, unlike you, or me, or eric cantor, the PO could pay its pensions costs out 20 or 25 years)
whats the purpose of that? the pupose was to create a burden the agency couldnt meet because NO ONE COULD…the fact that the burdern of paying benefits for 75 years is SO RIDICULOUS,is a pretty good indication of how solid the PO’s financial situation was..they had to really reach for something absurd to cause them to have a problem..but all you arent interested in the truth..the truth is whatever you want it to be..i had no idea you salt of the earth redneck types were soooo postmodern
For anyone who still hasnt really thought about what “privatization’, ‘globalization” and “market solutions” and ‘public private partnerships” and “shock doctrine” really mean..this is all another chance at a wake up call.. creating a crisis surrounding a usefull, needed public asset, the moving in to rob the people of that asset…they are targeting public education, social security, medicare and now the PO…there isnt going to be a moment when they say -OK we have more than we need already, we will stop now…that isnt going to happen. they will-not-stop-stealing and creating disasters to accomplish it until there is nothing left.Until they have EVERYTHING and there is no “public sector” at all..only your tax dollars going directly into thier pockets. They dont know or accept ANY LIMITS AT ALL to their botomless pit greed. They will use “modernization” and “efficency” as excuses and they will hire David Gugenheim and the New York Times to help them sell it and they will bend over backwards to convince you that its all in the publics best interest..but it isnt..any “reform’ with respect to the publics assets have to be carried out openly and with the full consent of, input from and approval of – the public. Anything short of that is NOT reform, it is theft.
solerso, I understand that the article disagrees with the decision to require the Post Office to fund its pension fully instead of leaving the financial burden to future workers, and argues that the PO is being treated unfairly because other federal agencies aren’t held to an equally high standard. Nevertheless, a fully funded pension plan is neither unreasonable nor uncommon in the private sector. The private companies that fail this test do untold damage to their workers. I can’t speak with any authority to how uncommon a fully funded pension plan is in the public sector, but if it really is unprecedented, the problem is with the rest of the public sector, not with the Post Office.
Whether in the public or the private sector, in either the unionized and non-unionized context, the alternative to a fully funded pension plan is a Ponzi scheme.
solerso, privatizing a government operation may be depriving the government of an asset, but it is not depriving the citizens of anything. The citizens are quite capable of continuing to provide themselves the service via the private sector, that is to say, by voluntary arrangements among themselves.
The post office pensions were and are “fully funded”..Your cynical and pathetic attempts at justifying an obvious political smash and grab with some fake concern for workers is almost as hilarious (and ineffective) as your kinds’ fake concern for civil rights – and no matter how many times you or people like you use these ploys, everyone can see through you, and them. and I UNDERSTAND that you have an opinion. Your opinion dosent line up with the facts. You can go on asserting it in opposition to the facts as long as you wish, and im sure you will. The facts presented in the article are not a matter of opinion.. this is not Fox and freinds. What is stated are empirical facts. ASTONISHGLY you arent trying to ignore now, or lie about it per se, now but to use it preposterously to support your weak argument -that in spite of what we can all see, your opinion is more important. I dont dont have an ideology. I base my position on whats really happening and being done. You run all your opinions through a Fox and freinds ideological strainer that catches anything which resembles independent though and prevents it from entering your mouth. you can go on like this, but i think its been PRETTY WELL DEMOSTRATE. You dont actually have an argument. Just another asshole common, received from your superiors in the mnedia – unsupportable, mean spirited, spiteful and self destructive, opinion. Not worth responding to again.
Then I’ll find some justification to seize, say, your church (in many Protestant denominations, a thing owned in-common) and bulldoze it into dust. Or turn it into a strip joint.
After all, “your people” are all free to build their own.
-stewartm
blah blah blah. your a broken record, and everyone is free to judge the worth of that comment for themselves, AND I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO DO SO.
My experience? Excellent with the publically owned USPS. Not-so-hot at times with the privately-owned UPS.
Fedex is so expensive it’s not really even in the ballgame.
So no, private is often not better. In fact my experience is that private is more often both a) pricier and b) inferior.
-stewartm
I did.
It seems that ‘Texan99′ cannot fathom the truth that when the government owns something, then that thing is in essence owned by all its citizens.
If then that thing is handed over to one individual or a few heading a private group, then that one or the few gain that thing and all of the other citizens *LOSE* that thing. Moreover,, with our bought government leadership acting in cahoots with said one individual or private firm, the “compensation” paid to all the rest of the citizenry for that thing is just a fig leaf to cover grand larceny.
-stewartm
IAt least one large, online clothing retailer I buy from has a system whereby UPS delivers only to the nearest post office (possibly sectional center, I’m not sure), and the post office takes over delivery from there. It’s been that way for at least a couple of years now.
Let’s not forget that there are other users beyond FedEx that work with the USPS as well. For the last 2-3 Harry Potter books, the suburban Chicago national service department of the 3rd party logistics company I used to work for coordinated the multiple thousands of first day deliveries to people who had ordered them through Amazon, etc. The books were picked up via regular semi trucks and delivered to the thousands of post offices across the country so they could make the final delivery to the customer on the day the book was released. That was as nightmare to coordinate, but it worked.
Well we should make a note of how that played out. DONT LET people like that lie about the facts..texas99 is welcome to love privatization, or collect ayn rand memorabillia or whatever -but texas99 is NOT welcome to argue with lies…it all comes down to a fanatical and spiteful loyalty to some fantasy concept of “libertarisnism” or ‘anti-big gubmit’ with these types of people..not that they hate big govt when they are expanding police powers or spending trillions on weapons systems we dont need,and cant use, or when big gubmint’ is starting and losing wars all over the world – or WHEN THEY GET SOMETHING OUT OF IT…they just hate big gubmint when they feel like they got nothing to lose.
You might want to direct your question to newcarguy @ 12, and/or get your irony meter checked.
And privatized prisons.
A better analogy would be for a Protestant congregation to part ways with the mother church and continue to use the church facilities that they built and paid for with their own tithes. The mother church would squawk and feel a loss, but the members would go on as they always had. I agree that the situation would look different if the central simply gave the church building to a single person — but that wouldn’t be at all like privatization as it’s normally done.
It’s funny how I experience the government taking property from its citizens as theft, while you experience the citizens taking property from the government as theft. Theoretically we’re both talking about the body public, but we prefer different representative institutions. I think a big difference in our approach lies in which institutions we think are more responsive to their members. I have a lot of faith in private institutions in which citizens deal with each other voluntarily. I distrust the government because it relies on force, but it does have the advantage that, at least theoretically, it’s there to benefit everyone regardless of their personal contribution. Sometimes, as in the case of firefighting and national defense, even I would agree that’s the right model. I don’t care for it in the context of services that can easily and fairly be funded with user fees.
Solerso, I don’t think we mean the same thing by “fully funded.”
Privatized prisons may not be a good idea, but it’s not because the public has been deprived of a valuable asset.
There will be much hilarity when people in the big square states, and most everyone not living in the highly populated areas of all other states, have to pay more to send mail and parcels, and have them sent to them.
You might note that this anti PO stuff is not such a big deal with the great unwashed Tea Party types. This is the ancient pet project of the Beltway intellectual wankers. It might sound good in theory to the ditto heads but the day the numbers start to come out it is going to be hilarious.
As an example I had to send a rather large box to Kalispel MT from MI. I went to UPS and they said $72. I said “what?” Drove over to the PO and paid $32.
It’s very puzzling how the USPS could be charging so much less than a market rate, but can’t figure out how to raise its rates and stay solvent. It’s great service and a great price? Why is it sinking?
stop lying you asshole..anyone who read the post has the answer to your miselading qustion.