“Early on in the Obama Administration, conservatives bullied the Department of Homeland Security into retracting a report on right-wing extermism. And yet the incidents keep happening, over and over and over. I assume it would have been nice to have a profile of the types of people who would engage in such violence. But we can’t have useful things’

they have more profiles than they know what to do with. The fact is, They consider Anarchist and radical green peace actrivists to be a more serious threat than rightwing murderers. Why do americans still have such a hard time understanding that they are. Look at our govt, look at our empire of globalization, peace activists really do represent more of a threat to it than murdering bomb making skin heads.

I just read on twitter that the shooter is from a town adjacent to Columbine and not far from Aurora.

I don’t think Columbine has anything to do with this. Completely different situation. Two kids bullied into insanity, targeting the jocks and other kids that picked on them.

This is different. Aurora was different.

Interesting correlation, and I think it maybe points to an extremist group operating in that area of Colorado. If this is the case, the FBI needs to be working their ass off on warrants to toss this group of people up. 2 shooters in the span of a few weeks from the same area… there may be more.

Nothing to see here. This is just the enforcement arm of the Right Wing in training exercises and market trials.

It’s always an “act of domestic terrorism” when turbaned people get in the way of white guys firing off bullets to prove their 2nd amendment rights. Those non-Christian people weren’t asked to come here, now were they?

See post below

I don’t think Columbine has anything to do with this. Completely different situation. Two kids bullied into insanity, targeting the jocks and other kids that picked on them.

I agree with the first part of your statement but the part I bolded is incorrect. Check Dave Cullen’s book “Columbine” where he found that contrary to popular thinking, the killers weren’t part of the Trench Coat Mafia, weren’t bullied by other students and that they didn’t target popular jocks, African-Americans or any other group.

White Supremacy is a vile movement.

I haven’t paid much attention to these events, but their increasing frequency makes me wonder if they’re not part of the domestic blowback from U.S. adventurism overseas.

was identified as a white supremacist from his tattoos

There is no support for that claim.

I’m pretty sure Monk would find that too much of a coincidence.

I don’t know. But you know that doesn;t stop me.

300+ million people and a given % are crazy. I think it’s just the arithmetic catching up with us, poor mental health care facilities and, with some, the desire to be famous.

This thing of not talking about the background or political beliefs of the shooter is interesting…if there were evidence of some leftward slant, it would be on billboards by the side of interstate highways…

Also, regarding yet another “expression of condolences” from our courageous preznint, my fantasy is that I’m a credentialed reporter at the next presidential presser, and when he calls on me, I say:

“I don’t really have a question, Mr. President; I’d just like to hear you speak the word “gun” loudly and clearly, so we would know that YOU know that these people aren’t being slaughtered with slingshots and bows and arrows. I know that doing so would put you at some risk of losing the gun vote but I’d like to remind you that when you won in a landslide in 2008, you did it with practically none of that…because so many americans thought you were an honest, principled, man…willing to take on the vested corporate interests that have assumed so much power over america.

As Jerry Lee Lewis was fond of saying: ” ‘Hink about it…”

I think 56 Brits died in England from firearms last year. Our count was about…31,000?

Even allowing for the fact that the U.S. has about five times the population of England, that makes for a ratio of

280, to 31,000.

I think it’s the ongoing enshrining of the ethic of “I’ve got mine; fuck YOU, Jack.”

Caught up in the great corporate rat-race, people have no humanistic tribal connection. Instead, they identify with giant corporate sports entities or the mindless, gratuitous, violence that is beamed at us 24-7.

A friend of mine, rest her bones, was fond of saying:

“No wonder we’re all crazy; we’re living our lives like a blowfly on a hot turd.”

And there is a LOT of money being made off of the ‘twitching”.

Oops! Did I mention that Barack Obama’s term in office has been dedicated to sustaining that situation?

You think it’s bad here?

This is the most assimilative culture in the world.

The U.S. culture…to the extent that we have one…is that we have no culture, and no real homogeneity…certainly not compared to the world’s other large nations.

Worry about France.

When the average Frenchman finally figures out what the demographics and record of immigrant assimilation in France hold in store for the venerable French cultural identity…France will make the Germany of the 1920s and 1930s look perfectly reasonable.

That’s where your next Hitler will come from…the U.S. is way, way down the list in that regard.

Yeah, I think it’s bad here.

France hasn’t killed a few hundred thousand Iraqis who had nothing to do with 9-11, as they mounted an invasion based on lies, bullshit, and ethnic and religious bigotry.

They HAVE helped to sustain the misery in Afghanistan, but it looks like they’re bailing on any more of that, in the not-too-distant future.

“This is the most assimilative culture in the world. ”

That is blatant nonsense. The Dutch have been less given to racism. So have the Nordic countries. For that matter, so has England. The french affinity, and tolerance for, Arab culture, has been wide and deep. The recent rise of ethnic hatred there has been due to one thing: the fact that the French people have tried the same corporatist values that are wrecking america, and they have failed…leaving a lot of people worse off for the trying, and affording the French right the chance to demonize other ethnic groups, particularly the arabic people who have been living there for a long time with very few problems.

It’s the same thing that the conservatives are doing here: handing more and more power to the corporate interests, which means more belt-tightening for most of us, and then the right can point to the minorities and immigrants, in the best Hitlerian style, and blame them for our economic problems.

It works really well when a democratic president gets elected in what amounts to, these days, a landslide…with huge majorities in both houses to help him mount a salvage operation, and then proceeds to squander all of it, while doing wondrous rehab on the assholes and their policies that have nearly ruined us.

BTW, the most obvious and unspinnable refutation of your…theory…is that in Francois Hollande, France just elected a moderate socialist as president. He’s set a date for pulling French troops out of Afghanistan and has a policy ofincreasing the taxes on the wealthy, and no incremental bullshit about it. If he’s intelligent, he’ll move the French government back to the middle and away from the flirting with all of the rightwing bullshit.

There is not going to be a French “Hitler”. Period. Exclamation point.

Please accept my compliments and support.

lol

Hollande was elected because the most far-right candidate refused to endorse incumbent conservative Sarkozy.

There will be a French Hitler…and France will elect him/her.

Just as Germany elected its Chancellor in 1933.

That won’t happen in the U.S.

The “Nordic countries”…?

Like Norway…arguably the most “Nordic” of the Nordic nations…for example?

The man who murdered 77 people in Norway was declared insane.

Was he more insane than the man elected Chancellor of Germany in 1933?

I don’t think so.

Clearly…you disagree.

Me…?

I stand by my initial comment.

The U.S. is the most tolerant and most assimilative of the world’s nations.

Still…in a democracy, it’s ok to disagree.

No…?

Hitler was not elected.

But the combination of right-wing politicians and businessmen that colluded (with the enthusiastic support of the same groups in the US) to get him appointed is very similar to what is happening in the U.S. now. We only have the trappings of democracy.

I’m not sure what you mean by a “French Hitler” or a new Hitler. A warmonger? An insane, power hungry empire builder? A dictator who eliminates all democratic rights and imprisons and murders anyone person or group of people who opposes him?

I live in France. I don’t see France anywhere close to the police state that the US already is. But I also don’t see these issues as national. The largely upper class of people that support and empower the Hitlers of the world are global.

MIght be a French Marx or Stalin or perhaps Inspector Clouseau, but NOT a Hitler.

Ahhhhh you’re saying we are still the America of “I disagree with what yo say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

I don’t think Rush, Hannity, O’Reilly, Cantor, McConnell, Kyl, Ryan, Palin, Bachmann, Turner and Overdrive would do that.

None of which supports your claim about america being the most racially tolerant country.

It wasn’t too many decades ago when black men were being whipped, or worse, for whistling at a white woman.

Do I need to remind you of the violence that was inflicted on the Civil Rights movement and it’s supporters?

You really don’t have a leg to stand on in this.

BTW, Evelyn, he’s right about Hitler being elected in 1933. The Nazi party won that election, and as it’s leader, Hitler was appointed Reichskanzler.

Hollande was elected because he got more votes than anyone else. It’s called “democracy”, and it was a clear move back to the middle from the policies of his predecessor.

No French Hitler. You can bet the ranch on it. :o)

Talking about it discredits you, utterly.

What do you think about Clouseau????

I think he’d be better than Petain. :o)

Nonsense, Evelyn.

Review the contents of your link regarding Adolph Hitler’s ascension to power in Germany.

Hitler assumed office as Chancellor in 1933 in accordance with the election laws in place in Germany.

Are you really so pleased with the assimilation of immigrants into French society and culture?

And do you really want to brag about assimilation of immigrants to France…compared to the U.S.?

Really, Evelyn?

Incidentally, just saying that amerika won’t tolerate an upfront fascist, is nothing but a straw dog. We’re already tolerating this neo-fascist alliance of our corporate lords, the military, and, despite the big win by a democrat whom we thought would be a man of courage and principle, the government doing a lot to implement it.

OK, tanbark…

Which countries best assimilate immigrants from varied racial, ethnic and cultural backgrounds?

Which countries do it better (and in larger numbers) than the U.S.?

Can we rule out Norway…and France?

again, you evidently don’t read any history that you don’t agree with. Arab immigrants have been a substantial part of the French population for a long time. And they were not persecuted, and they were certainly not depicted as responsible for France’s probems, the way that Hitler and the Nazis demonized the Jewish people as they demagogued and thugged their way to power.

The French aren’t saints. I’m not claiming that, but you’re distorting history to back up your bugaboo of a French Hitler arising.

Hollande’s policies, if he can implement them, will do a lot to ease the racial tensions in France, nearly all of which have sprung from the political resurgence of the right, and THEIR hate-driven philosophy.

“Can we rule out Norway and France?”

No, we cannot.

Are those two countries discussing building a wall on their border to keep out Swiss, Germans, Belgians, or Swedes, etc.? Or using their military to do it? It comes up regularly here, from our crazies.

All you have to point to are the killings by one lunatic in Norway, and using him is ludicrous, for the simple reason that he didn’t go after immigrants, but instead, he killed a lot of young “native” Norwegians whom he thought were “liberals”. Prior to that, the car bomb he planted outside of the office of the Prime Minister, to my knowledge, killed no immigrants among the 8 people who died in that crime.

Are you saying that in a country the size of Norway, he couldn’t find any immigrants to attack?

Extrapolating a broad Norwegian anger against immigrants, from what Anders Breivik did, is ridiculous. You should be ashamed of yourself for trying to do it.

Hitler was appointed chancellor in January prior to the “elections” in March, which followed the Reichstag fire and violent suppression and intimidation.

But call it what you like. Under the circumstances, it’s hard to believe that it was the will of a majority of the German people.

Evasion, tanbark…

I take that back…let’s call it: “short attention span”.

So…I’ll simply show good faith, and refresh your memory:

“Which countries best assimilate immigrants from varied racial, ethnic and cultural backgrounds”?

And;

“Which countries do it better (and in larger numbers) than the U.S.”?

So…which ones?

Besides Norway and France (lol)? (Please…don’t ignore the volume issue, tanbark. Thanks.)

Anything, tanbark?

Anything at all?

The will of the German people?

Can’t comment on that, Evelyn.

Will or no, most Germans followed Hitler into the Second World War and the Holocaust.

It couldn’t have happened otherwise.

I’m sorry. I thought you were talking about the possibility of the rise of a new “Hitler,” and I asked you for a definition of what you meant by that.

I really don’t know how to compare the harassment, violence, intimidation, rates of deportation of immigrants from Africa, gypsies, prejudice against Muslims, etc. in France to the same sorts of actions in the US against Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, immigrants from Mexico, Latin America, Asia, etc. Xenophobia and racism seem to be intensifying all over the world, and it’s very dangerous.

But I don’t see in France active attempts to suppress the vote, suspension of civil liberties, violent repression of protest, active warmongering, calls for new wars and more invasion of more countries, just to list a few things that are rather serious problems in the U.S. In time, perhaps, but the U.S. is much more, um, advanced in those rather crucial areas.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t believe that it was Hitler’s or even German prejudice towards immigrants or minorities alone that brought Hitler to absolute power and propelled him into a war that killed tens of millions of people.

Anything? I’ve already nailed you to the wall.

I don’t think Breivik killed a single immigrant, and the atmosphere for pimping hatred at immigrants is so much worse in america than it is in most other countries, that you look like a clown trying to make France and Norway, etc’. look like some kind of nascent 1930′s Germany.
.

Evelyn, in July of 1932, the Nazis won nearly 40% of the vote. Substantially more than any other party. In another election a few months later, there was a slight dip in their power, but they still controlled the Reichstag with their numbers. By German law, Hitler was appointed Chancellor by Hindenburg on January 31st.

He became Chancellor because he was the leader of the party that won the elections. The Nazis took power in the elections.

“…the political resurgence of the right, and THEIR hate-driven philosophy.”

That view dovetails quite nicely with the argument I was making, actually…I might have said “fear-driven”, but fear leads to hatred, so I won’t quibble.

As I stated at the beginning of our exchange, France and other European countries have homogeneous societies…certainly when compared to the United States. These nations are culturally homogeneous with unique languages, customs, religious practices and history in a way that’s dramatically different from the United States. That homogeneity discourages assimilation of immigrants with dramatically different cultural attributes…compared to the United States.

Muslims in France complain that they aren’t allowed to assimilate fully into French culture, and that they’re becoming part of a permanent subculture with a lower standard of living and limited upward mobility in French society…while many native-born French citizens clearly resent the presence of the customs and religious beliefs of the Muslim minority, Muslim-related civil unrest, and the threat that they believe is posed to the preservation of French culture.

When you combine that tension with an never-ending EU economic crisis that threatens to throw most of the member economies into turmoil from one day to the next, and the rising strength of the French ultra-nationalist political parties…is that really so different from Germany in the 1920s and 1930s?

How much economic turmoil and civil unrest would be necessary to create the conditions for a Marine Le Pen to form a government in France…or prevent the forming of a coalition government at all? Not sure…but it’s certainly not unimaginable.

Anyway, I still believe that the United States successfully assimilates more immigrants from a rainbow of different ethnicities and cultures than any other nation in the world.

I don’t believe that you’ve mounted an effective argument to the contrary.

If you really find me and my comments to be clownish…enjoy the entertainment, tanbark.

Honestly…I enjoyed the exchange.