The cult of the savvy dismissed Harry Reid’s claim that someone told him Mitt Romney didn’t pay taxes for ten years as just a ploy to focus attention on the non-release of the Republican nominee’s tax returns. Surely Romney paid SOME taxes from 2000-2009, went the claim.
But what if this all goes back to Romney’s deal to end his tenure as CEO of Bain Capital? That’s the speculation that this TPM reader made.
…you’re missing the piece on the timeline where Romney cut a retirement deal with his partners to buy out his shares in the Bain Capital management company. Where it could be zero is if Romney had previously contributed his shares of the Bain Capital management company that he controlled 100% of into his IRA over the years.
The corporate structure of most private equity firms is such that there is a management company (holding company) above a set of LLCs or limited partnerships which are the actual funds investing the capital and collecting the fees/distributing the profits. Romney was both a general partner in the funds and the sole shareholder of the management company.The management company shares are generally considered to have relatively nominal value (i.e. you can conceivably put them into an IRA) as there generally isn’t a lot of (or any) income/revenue associated with them — however, since the management company owns the brand name and controls the funds and all hiring/firing/compensation decisions (within Bain Capital), if Romney’s partners wanted to continue using the name “Bain Capital” and take over control of the private equity firm and funds in the future, they would have to buy back Romney’s shares over a period of several years for hundred+ of millions of dollars. This is not uncommon in private equity firms undergoing an ownership transition. Since these shares (could) have been contributed to an IRA over the years, the Romney’s income 2002 to 2009 would largely be from his partners at Bain buying back shares that he’s already contributed to his IRA, and just like any trading you do in your IRA, the sale of these shares would be tax free until after he turns 65 (and/or withdraws from said IRA) and he’d pay zero income taxes on that. So, if he had transferred 50% of his Bain management co. shares to an IRA, if he was being paid $20M per year to have those shares bought back, his tax rate would be a blended 7.5%. If the management company shares were held overseas or had overseas blocker entities, it is conceivable it could be even lower than that. Also, he could use his taxable shares as charitable gifts and his non-taxable IRA shares as tax free income.
This is not the first time I’ve heard this speculation. It brings together two separate threads, the leaving of Bain in 1999 and the tax returns issue. It would also explain the accumulation of $100 million in his IRA, which has always been conspicuous (Sure, he would eventually have to pay taxes on whatever he withdraws from this, but that’s down the road). Plus, as the reader explains in a later post, this is something that investors in Bain would probably know about. They would know about the purchase of shares, at the least, and they would probably know that they were getting routed into Romney’s IRA. So that answers the “how would anyone know what’s in Romney’s tax return” question. And it answers the anonymity question:
Any Limited Partner who disclosed details of Bain’s finances to Harry Reid (of all people) would likely have broken iron clad confidentiality agreements and would be risking meaningful personal and professional liability. I’m not saying Harry Reid is telling the truth, but the knowledge of Romney’s taxes and any tax-deferred or neutral deal would likely be known by more than just Romney, his family, and Bain Capital.
We know that Romney participated in Marriott’s abusive tax shelter, and we know about Swiss bank accounts and holdings in the Cayman Islands, so it’s not like he’s above aggressive tax planning strategies. And while this would be within the bounds of the law based on the structure of the company, his effective tax rate would really approach zero, if this is true. Brian Beutler shopped this around to tax experts, who agreed that it’s plausible, though they questioned the literal reading of “zero taxes.” I think the point is that the effective rate on income would be low enough as to be indistinguishable from zero. And this is pretty much par for the course in the corporate circles in which Romney operated, where the goal was to drive your effective rate down to the extent possible.
Ultimately, we’re not going to get an answer to this. It’s too damaging to everyone involved, both the subject and the source. Romney is content to run out the clock and to try and pivot to other matters. But that doesn’t mean this won’t continue to haunt him politically.




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The problem here is that tax dodging is perfectly legal for the rich.
Given their size, Mitt’s required IRA withdrawals, starting at age 70 1/2, will be hit with the top rate on regular income. Let’s just say he has some skin in the game of reducing those top rates by 2018.
Reduce rates and broaden the tax base … once the horse is out of the barn.
So, becoming President is a personal wealth management strategy for Mitt?
It’s possible, I suppose.
I do like this TPM commenter’s explanation overall, though, in that it wraps up apparently disparate elements (when Mitt left Bain; the huge IRA; the resistance to releasing tax returns; a Bain person knowing Mitt’s taxes) into one nice package. Getting LDS tithing into this story would be the icing on the cake: perhaps Mitt has convinced the church that his tax rate is 20% and therefore his tithe should simply be half his taxes every year? You know, like one calculates a restaurant server’s tip by doubling the tax in states with 8% sales tax? But for rich people?
I’m very irritated by the Villagers’ harrumphing over “well, he COULDN’T have paid ZERO taxes!” because said Villagers presume they too have the very best tax/wealth management strategies money can buy. If they only knew….
And that’s kind of the point of ALL this secrecy, isn’t it? Mustn’t have the rubes — which, for Mitt, includes the bottom 90% of the 1% — find out all the strategies available to the very, very wealthy. Or they’d all want a piece of the action. And a Horse Prom horsie to boot!
Reply to #1
Yeah, but it’s really offensive to the vast majority of people who don’t get those options presented to them at H&R Block and pay effective tax rates much higher than Bishop Mitt and Lady Ann.
I know if I had the option, as an older person, to take my salary in the form of a tax-deferred IRA contribution and only pay taxes on withdrawals, I’d do it in a minute. Anybody would.
But since we can’t, we as taxpayers are effectively subsidizing Mitt Romney to do it. What a load of crap.
Obama released twelve years, following the example Romney’s own father set. That right there would make a candidate with a micron of integrity drop out of the race.
But, may I kinda quote the president. “It may not be illegal, but it is immoral and unethical.”
Point of interest…..I saw a poster mention that (apparently) McCain had seen Romneys returns and he noted that McCain has not disputed the claim made by Harry (now I have a pair) Reid.
I suppose the best way to get $10 million is to start with $100 million in tax deferred income.
You’d think?
But Mitt and his wife feel Mitt is the chosen one. It’s “his turn”.
That’s why he goes by the code name “elongated larynx.”
Makes sense and while it violates all ideas of fairness, there appears to be nothing illegal about it. Tax laws were made for the elites, not for us poor saps. Obama should make an issue about reforming the tax code for things like this. Let Mittens and his friends squirm. I think most people would agree with him. It would strike a blow at the one per centers for a change. Why in heavens name would anyone want a president who would uphold this sort of legal theft while he cuts SSMM? And extends more money to banks and to the defense industry?
The really interesting fact about this story is that it has had little or no impact on the poll numbers. As a tactic to help Zero it has been a failure and since the dems have nothing positive to run on it reeks of desperation.
Starting with at least the Clinton administration, it seems the party in control has access to anyones IRS records they desire.
That’s actually false.
Obama’s numbers have crept upward (favorability, swing states) while Mitt’s have slipped during this time. Might be correlation, not causation, but it’s untrue to say the poll numbers are unchanged over the time this story’s been front and center (to the extent it is front and center, which I very much doubt).
This is an inside-the-Beltway narrative-setting story. It’s giving the press permission to hammer Romney as unable to right his ship. That’s devastating, combined with the abuse the press took on his Yurp trip. Al Gore proved the press can turn on a candidate pre-convention, as they are again on Mitt, unrecoverably.
One point missed in all this “George Romney released 12 years of returns” is that he did it because he knew he would be running against Tricky Dick Nixon for the 1968 GOP nomination. And that Nixon had become a pseudo-wealthy man in his six years out of power, as a New York lawyer/handmaiden to the very wealthy powers-that-be, nationally and internationally. Nixon, Mudge, Rose, Guthrie was a huge corporate firm (John MItchell was managing partner) with as close to a global stance as firms had then. Nixon lent his name, attended meetings with wealthy clients as decor, and made millions doing it. He didn’t “lawyer” — he made it rain.
I’m not sure that Nixon ever released anything but sanitized returns, but George Romney wasn’t being a saint or a trend-setter: he was trying to smoke out corruption in his primary competitor.
This is just another form of carried interest but with zero current taxes. Obama could easily make this an issue. Why he has not so far is a mystery to me. He already has the opening with the tax returns mittens released. Those were at fifteen percent. Shit I could write the script. And bring it back to zero taxes without mentioning mittens. But you might know who I was talking about. Explain why not mittens? Oh is that what you did? Is that why you will not release those tax returns?,
Agreed. THis issue is like “body punches” in a boxing match. Eventually they take a toll. And they will and, IMO, may likely be to single most costly thing in Romney’s loss. The “people” will not vote for him. The polls DO show that quite clearly.
’68 was a fascinating year. Scranton, Rockefeller, Nixon (who most people didn’t like) a nd George Wallace who very likely got Nixon elected.
I just wish we could make *that* an election issue rather than Mitt’s tax returns.
I want a horsie. I counted lots of them when I worked at that private-equity-owned global inventory auditing firm — that is, before I became too sick to work any more.
Sigh — I guess I’ll have to settle for one of those special fluff-stuffed air-dropped Nordic deluxe teddy bears instead. Now, if I could just get one of them autographed by…
There should be absolutely no mystery to anybody. Romney made much more money th an he h as adamitted to. He evaded taxes, probably cheated his church too with his 10% “tithe” on 40% of his income. He likely wrote off expenses on several hobbies as if they were businesses anda had 304 offshore accounts. The offshore acounts alone could cost him the election. Let’s not forget, even the republicans didn;t like him very much untill he eliminated all his competitors. Up intil December 2011, GOP voters sai by52% that Romney was NOT a viable candidate and could not defesat Obama.
The Gallup daily poll has shown no real change in this dead heat contest. You are correct that this is a Beltway narrative but it is having little effect on the larger country, people don’t seem to care.
The Dems have never been effective with Swift Boat tactics and it is seen as a sign of weakness on their part.
I think it is exceedingly easy to get to Zero tax rate. Say that only half of the LLC interest re-purchase payments from the other partners went into the IRA. (Reasonable since Mitt would not have held all of his interest in a tax-restricted IRA.) Who’s to say that the remainder was not all paid for in off-shore transfers? You think Mitt was the only Bain owner to shelter their gains overseas? I’m sure he had moved a portion if not all of his ownership stake overseas in that 15-year span before 1999. That half would be fully-accessible, and opaque to US taxing authorities (and like the LDS elders, as well). Now you can tie in his plan to allow for all off-shore profits to be re-patriated tax-free – he’s not restricting that plan to multi-national corporations, you know. Individual tax evaders are welcome in the House of Mitt, too!
The Ten-year re-purchase/severance deal dovetails completely with the years he doesn’t want to reveal. It’s not something as simple as an IRA dodge, though – it would include a road map to his off-shore caches of hidden profits. And I am absolutely certain the total nt worth is way more than a quarter billion dollars – whoever relies on that figure is naive to the extreme.
Agree completely. We ought to be asking why Reid isn’t more concerned with the legality of the morally and ethically wrong tax system than with exploiting Mitt’s returns to win an election.
You’re kidding right? Thats what it’s all about. Some people get away with no taxes while others get to pay the full load.
Big issues in there if someone really wanted to exploit it.
Word.
Except all us that need out salary now, to live on.
IMO, people get that kabuki is being played and tune it out. Now, if anyone was interested in engaging voters, they would start talking about the unfairness of the tax code and use Romney’s returns as exhibit A.
Hey, mebbe I could take “Norman the Norsebear” to the conventions with me (hey, “horsie”, “norsie”) – this is getting downright serious, folks. And you haven’t even heard about Kat the Teddy Bear Lady yet (cause I haven’t gotten around to telling you about her — sorry, y’all).
Yep!
CNN poll today shows that 63% of voters – and 67% of Independents – agree that Romney needs to show more tax returns. Whoever said that this issue doesn’t have legs, is just wrong. Doesn’t seem like a “sign of weakness” out in the Heartland, Troll…
I see it differently, actually. Reid is basically accusing Romney of not paying taxes, of lying and cheating. This is being framed as an issue of personal character.
The real issue is the inequity of the tax system.
I think there is some wishful thinking here because people should care about this subject but actually don’t. It may come as a suprise to some that many Amerikans admire tax dodgers and Disaster Capitalists.
I expect that Zero will win by a small margin because the LOTE voters will hold their nose and do their duty to party and country. It will make little difference to the general public and we can return to suffering the Death Of A Thousand Cuts that is our future.
I don’t know, but in any case Obama can pick it up whenever he likes. I see Harry as teasing him. Like come clean there mittens. The more mittens talks about it the tougher it gets for him to explain. And the more the inequity is obvious. But it will take Obama to make it big time.
“These are a few of my favorite tax hacks…” (apologies to R&H)
wedges and nudges and hedges and bundling
kittens and ******* and batching and grouping
pumping and dumping with each high-yield day
May they all venture to Mars and then stay-y-y-y-y-yyyyyy!!!!!
From Wired Science (I don’t make this up, mind you; and yes it’s topic-relevant):
Humans on Mars: The Craziest, Weirdest, and Most Plausible Plans in History
By Adam MannEmail AuthorAugust 9, 2012 | 2:42 pm | Categories: Space
(heh) that’s why I always voluntarily ban myself from going online if/when I know I’m about to hit the sweet sauce (now remember, “Bubbly” — you said the champagne would be on you and dag nab it, I’m holding you to it!)
I believe you hit upon why Willard really runs.
His own greedy self-interest. Makes sense.
That’s some good history. Made all the more amazing by the fact that Mitt won’t release them for any reason.
Here’s that horsey for ya!
missionpony.com
Of course this is hurting Romney.
Only diehards on the right are for Romney. Most everyone else is holding their noses and voting for him.
Doesn’t mean that the tax issue won’t hurt the rich. Hearing these numbers, 102 million IRA, 100 million dollar trust for his sons,13.99% tax rate, offshore tax havens, no taxes for ten years, 12 million dollar house he gets his taxes lowered 37% on months after he buys it.
Believe it the people are getting angry.
Yes it is.
And the Dems think they can win with an attack on one rich man when in fact they are setting the house on fire.
It’s closer to a billion.
Yes, first billionaire president?
Perhaps Romney’s high-powered tax attorneys could have found a way to tiptoe around the rules, but I see a couple problems with the TPM reader’s scenario. A straight contribution of shares Romney owned personally to his IRA is not allowed – contributions must be in cash except for some rollovers. Also, any trading of these shares within Romney’s IRA of a company that he owned 100% overall sounds like it would be a prohibited transaction under the IRA rules. However, one cannot exclude the possibility Romney tried it and got away with it due to creative/aggressive tax maneuvers and/or IRS/DOL non-enforcement.
Don’t be so sure. Obama’s way ahead in the EV. Whether it’s rMoney’s lack of a vision, or lack of an identifiable soul, or the tax issue, the electorate has a pretty dim view of him even in the dog days of August.
I think a lot of people have a sense of this unfairness. Too bad a lot of them think they’re pre-rich and will be able to take advantage of these loopholes someday. Those are the lambs, er, people, who will be led to slaughter, er, I mean vote for rMoney.
Frankly, I think there are many felonies involved, along with the names of some very unsavory characters…and one is judged by the company one keeps.