Hi guys

Ann Richards’ daughter.

Now that she mentions it she does look like Ann.

Kamala Harris, next gov of ca?

what about point that Clinton surpluses led to massive household debt? Where’s Clinton econ team agency in this?

Clinton surpluses did not lead to massive household debt, for Christ’s sake. WTF?

Any open thread for those of us who aren’t twits?

Where did that come from?

So Obama is coming to the convention tonight. Maybe a moment with Bill Clinton for photo op.

[sigh] Apparently not.

Just did a useless new-VP-of-Development-of-local-college-I’m-on-the Fincom-of 5 pages (15 points) of notes in prep for a useless meeting that hasn’t been scheduled yet. VP started just yesterday, so I anticipate/forecast failure instead of having, ya know, actual evidence.

I’ve been associated with this college fundraising org for at least a decade. I might be the world’s worst participant in fundraising, since I know no one willing to donate meaningful sums, and I don’t know how the process works.

Tonight I decided to write out my uninformed ideas anyhow. Should be interesting to see if my prejudices are confirmed or trashed. Hoping (hope is a 4-letter word) for the former, but without much conviction.

I so do NOT understand twitter.

Kamala Harris- I’ve seen wetter dry ice but she’s always reminded me of the Washington gov, Gregoire. Who got her start pounding on crooked auto dealerships, among other things. She could focus on that and other things than pot and have a real chance of getting what she wants, politics wise.

From DDay’s tweet.

What Obama has wrought.

If we feed dday more birdseed will he tweet more often?

Did DD say that? I’m surprised.

Must be catapulting the propaganda…?

Thank you.

For people who wish to be lied to, this convention is excellent! Kamala Harris sold out on Fraudclosure and yet there she is, hawking herself as a champion of home”owners”! Awesome!

They’re even chanting, “Four more years!”, which is what they chanted for Nixon back in the day.

One thing is clear: The GOP are total wankers when it comes to lying. The Dems know own that mantle all the way.

stay right here Dearie – no need to tweet to participate here

no need to be a tweeter, you can read what dday’s saying up top here
and/or comment on your own if you are watching the Convention.

I’ll add the live stream – brb

No one (well except for one commenter whose screen name I’ve forgotten) ever accused dday of knowing anything about economics, in particular monetary policy.

But now we see that the economics dissociation spreads a bit wider.

Maybe DDay was just screwing with Ezra.

I typed that all of the AA Ds were lawn jockeys for their white PTB masters last night.

Some one took high offense. I directed that person to BAR. In particular this on-topic entry.

Didn’t stick around to learn whether other commenter clicked on link.

compared to other livestreams – this DNC feed has an amazing picture

It smacks of something a conservative would say: “Household debt was increasing during the time of Clinton surpluses, ergo Clinton surpluses caused soaring household debt”. I find it insulting to be honest, or would if I had any context. As it is, I haven’t seen the tweet either but I don’t do twitter.

Yeah. I hope so because I would hate to think that’s how he feels. Again, I have zero context so I’ll withhold judgment.
On Edit: On the other hand, that sounds just like something Ezra would say…

I do thiink saving the auto industry was one thing Obama did,right.

Actual tweet was in comment 4:

what about point that Clinton surpluses led to massive household debt? Where’s Clinton econ team agency in this?

I think someone had a post today with something like that. Idea being that his surplus led to people borrowing and fueled the housing bubble. Guess bush and Greenspan had nothing to do with it.

Hmm
Apparently Sandra Fluke was skipped over tonight, bummer

Comments on economics on every website I have scanned in last 2-5 years are moronic beyond imagination. Left-right-center.

I try to stay away from commenting, but every once in awhile I lose control.

Here’s his post on this
The Problem With the Clinton Budget Surpluses

Ahem. Auto workers lose wages & benefits in favor of bankers.

Sounds like a good plan to me.

/s

Yeah, I saw comment 4 obviously but it’s not in the tweet list at the top of this post.

Chances are the RWAF commenter did not go to that link. That’s okay, as some folks can’t stand to have their world-views challenged, even by people who are expert in that field. That’s what it means to live in a totalitarian society. We have to put up with that crap.

Just as racist and offensive the second time around.

Well, that’s something you’ll never see me commenting on! Other than getting money out of politics, I have no idea how all of that stuff works. I know what sounds stupid though.

What happened to Fluke?

What’s so tragic about this is that nothing that Romney did was illegal, it was “smart business”, and Obama and Democrats have been so weak-willed about leading efforts to CHANGE THE LAWS to prevent what Big Business has done to American workers.

That’s correct — and Margaret is correct. The truth is that excessive private borrowing was occurring at the same time there was a surplus.

Stephanie Kelton’s (MMT) point was that because folks mistakenly thought the economy was strong, they came to associate a strong economy with a surplus. But a surplus is exactly the wrong fiscal policy when the private sector is in deficit (heavily borrowing).

time? a couple others seem skipped – mistake imo – she was high profile and popular

Are you Carnac now? Not only are you deciding what that commentator did, you are assigning motives to him/her. Personally I’m tired of bullies who get surly when their every word isn’t hung upon and sycophantically agreed with.

Yes, but I had different take on it. There is point to be made there but not quite so extreme.

All those commercials about Corollas, Accords, Subarus, etc lasting 20 years or so. The simple truth is most were built in N. America after 1992. By union guys and gals. The Beamers, Volks, Jags, Audis, Mercedes, etc were not. And they were twice as expensive to repair and maintain. A scam not talked about much when you’re trying to destroy unions. It’s not the workers or the wages. It’s the Management and Board of Directors. They’re the problem, most times.

eCAHNomics, good to see you in the flesh, so to speak.

I read a comment by you a while back and was hoping to see you around to ask you about it.

Wayne Madsen.

You said something about not knowing what to think about him, which reflects my thoughts as well. Have you come to any conclusion?

ARG…I think my bovine excrement meter just exploded.

Have you read B’reishit, eCAHN?

I did! I’m always willing to learn. I still tell my Republican father (aged 95) and my neo=con twin brother that they should persuade me. They haven’t been able to, so far.

Oh yeah. I skimmed that but didn’t comment. Again, I know very little about economics and will be the first to admit it but that smelled fishy to me then. A good economy could possibly contribute to a certain exuberance in borrowing and lending but you can’t lay that at Clinton’s feet. That sounds like blaming Obama for high gasoline prices.

Sandra Fluke was moved to primetime.

OK here’s Fluke

Fluke *(flook)* is up now. OT: I asked my neo=con twin if he thought my daughter should have died from an ectopic pregnancy rather than being given whatever drugs necessary to save her life. NO, NO, he said. Yeah, well then, get the fuck outta women’s reproductive choices. Now!

Dearie! I had no idea – what a tragedy

Some good, some bad.

The advantage of conspiracy theorists is that they know sooo much more than we do about everything.

The disadvantage is that they may form emotionally compelling links that may or may not exist.

Conspiracies exist. I was sophomore in college when JFK was assassinated. I will not know that full story before I die.

Doesn’t mean I won’t keep track of new info.

No, he thought she SHOULD have been given whatever necessary to save her life. But he knows her. Women he doesn’t know, maybe not so much. Strange folks, these Republicans. I still like Ike.

Fluke has got to be making an impression. Good move to put her on.

but your daughter!

sounds like they moved her to network tv time.

So sorry to hear your personal tragedy.

It is emblematic of one of my major probs with us lil wimmins’ losing the gender war. Our stories are NOT heard.

Reading bio of William Lloyd Garrison. Did not know how the women’s rights movement tied into the abolition movement previously.

The sadness, for me, is that my brother would save my daughter …. but maybe not someone else’s daughter. And this, for you interest, is a man who recognized that crime went down when abortion became available to inner city girls who had rather ‘difficult’ futures. He got caught up in the right wing pro=birth crap. And, NO, he doesn’t speak against capital punishment. Bad guys should die. The cognitive dissonance….. it aches.

I’m willing to learn too.

it must. :(

Did you see the tweet about Fluke could start an independent women’s movement.

Fluke is male?

There’s nothing to learn from today’s republicans.

Personal tragedy? My family dysfunction? The daughter who had the ectopic pregnancy got excellent medical care and went on to have 3 delightful children. (We’re not sure if she’s done with that breeding!) But to think that anyone would choose to force her to die because ………… well, it’s all beyond me.

next up Warren. Can she win?

Ike wouldn’t be welcome in today’s republican party. Wouldn’t put aside saving the world from fascism to fight the battle against imposition of Sharia law in Kansas.

Oh!
I thought she died from the ectopic pregnancy! phew

I doubt Abe Lincoln would be a member of today’s Republican Party

Shocking, isn’t it?!

IMagine that, another person who came out of public schools. Too bad they want to do away with them.

That’s pretty much my take on him, too.

I’ve met with a fair number like him over the years (in Washington, Virginia, at Quantico and at Fort Meade of all places), and what I’ve learned is that there really is no way to verify or validate their stories.

I asked him about his earthquake listings and what it was I should be taking note of, what is the significance, and he responded, “Their frequency”. I don’t know what that means.

:-)

This is a lovely thread, reminds me of one of those little sidepools in a rushing torrent, ducklings scrambling up the rocks… (Obviously, I am not cognizant of how the twitter thing works, but the comments are going well.) I take this opportunity to thank David for his posts these last few days – as well as others that I didn’t get back to in timely fashion.

Hadn’t heard the name Wayne Marsden in a while, and I appreciated your comment on that, eCAHnomics. I’m with Margaret on the whole economics game. Absorbant, like blotting paper, me – ah, but who would remember blotting paper?

I have a super problem with that Liz.

Sorry, I didn’t phrase any of that clearly. R’s are able to care about their own families, but think everyone else should suck it up. At least that’s what I find.

She should blog here. If she loses, we gotta get her.

Wonderful. That little duckling scrambled up onto the slippery rocks. It wasn’t clear at first.

Glad to hear it worked out well in the end. And sorry to leap to the conclusion that what you already revealed was the prime cause of anything.

I have a lot of first principle fights wrt to medical industry.

They all seem completely inappropriate in your description of your daughter’s family experience.

I think I didn’t type anything wrt your family dysfunction. If I did, I apologize.

IMO, one should not ignore opinions. Heh.

Corporations are not people she says. Wonderful.

oh, we do family dysfunction with enthusiasm! my sister, brother and I consider ourselves rather quintessential feral children. we can still laugh.

yeah – ex. why doesn’t Roman Catholic Paul “legitimate rape” Ryan have six kids – they wouldn’t be using *shudder* BIRTH CONTROL would they?

Check out the whole bunch of them! Why doesn’t Romney have a dozen? They are all just ridiculous.

nah. he just abstains like his wife throws him out.Who would want to sleep with him?

This should be flashing on a chiron under her face:

MOVE TO AMEND

I like Elizabeth Warren, but I kind think sexy-man Brown has charmed the pants off of the Massachusetts voter. When Coakley failed to actually campaign to win Teddy Kennedy’s seat, I knew the handwriting was on the wall.

I agree.

Bullies? What’s this then:

Again, I know very little about economics and will be the first to admit it but that smelled fishy to me then. A good economy could possibly contribute to a certain exuberance in borrowing and lending but you can’t lay that at Clinton’s feet.

Well, we have to lay the fault for bad policy at the feet of those who lobbied for, passed and signed off on those policies. Especially when they celebrate those shitty policies to this very day, as a certain “Bubba” does right now and is still banking tens of millions on the basis of what he did in office way back when.

I can be wrong about any number of things, including what motivated any given commentator on any issue. But what I DO know is you simultaneously admit your own ignorance, while proclaiming knowledge that the Big Dog can’t be guilty of what he is accused. All on faith, apparently.

And yet you are every bit as quick to judge as anyone, all while judging others for the same offense. Lovely.

As we’ve become accustomed to admitting since 2000, shocked, but unsurprised…

Reagan couldn’t get invited to Grover Norquist and Ralph Reed’s christian dominionist cross burning party on the White House lawn, either.

http://www.thedailyjournal.com/article/20120827/OPINION02/308270017/Reagan-Eisenhower-would-feel-uncomfortable-GOP

Here come da man.

I am so going to hell for this but Elizabeth Warren’s hair looks like the Collegeville Costumes wig I wore in 2d grade as a Colonial woman

It doesn’t help that Obama and DLC/No Labels/Third Way Democrats work on behalf of Scott Brown.

This was a major photo-op for Brown by Obama.

The man who sold out the middle class of America.

And ushered in the modern age of financial terrorists.

But here’s the thing.

Every thing the Ds and Rs do is immoral. How to circumvent that.

Red tie Clinton? Tired of lying you’re a Democrat?

He looks better than he ever has, guess the vegan diet is a good one.

I’m puking.

I think I hate the Ds almost as much now as I hate the Rs.

Charlie Cook: 300,000 Obama Voters Would have to Switch to Scott Brown for Elizabeth Warren to Lose

MASSACHUSETTS IS a “Democratic state,” said Charlie Cook on “Morning Joe.” Yes, it will be close all the way to the end, but Chuck Todd agreed. We all may wake up to an 8-point win by Elizabeth Warren, because it’s a state that traditionally votes Democratic and it’s a presidential election year.

Oh my.

Man he controls the crowd. Whatever else you say, the man has presence.

LOL

yes

and continuing my descent into superficiality, it looks as if he’s had his face carefully lifted

Pour on the lies Clinton.

Since you signed NAFTA and the banks melted down from your deregulation we know without a doubt you are lying that You want a strong middle class.

Fact check quick on that. Intuitively sounds right direction.

I have been noticing the faces. . .I’d have a face lift if I could too.

Yeah, because they made you rich. You sell out.

Re: Comment about “good sense to marry Michelle Obama”:

Don’t remind everyone that you’re a hard dog to keep on the porch.

me too – but not gonna happen

“He can shake your hand and piss down your leg at the same time.”

Imagine that he likes the republicans. Guess he grew up someplace other than where I lived.

And he plays great blues sax too.

Clinton doesn’t care he put millions of Americans into poverty with his policies.

After all, he’s saving poor foreigners.

So it’s even steven in the morality book I guess.

lol

Many of us middle americans did just fine under Clinton’s regime. And, man, he’s got the stuff that a politician needs.

Clinton calls out the tea bag crazies. Wow hoo!

meh

geez he praises bi partisanshp.

Compromise for DLC/No Labels/Third Way Democrats like Bill Clinton & Obama = Giving away other people’s issues that you don’t care about and that don’t affect you (Republican-lites)

Uh, I’m talking about his policies of Nafta and deregulation that have pulled us down this past decade.

Immoral connotes morality, eCAHN. D’s & R’s aren’t immoral, they’re amoral.

Indeed he does. He’s still the best politician since Kennedy.

I was a lot more secure during Clinton’s term than I am now. You?

You gotta respect his smarts in politics.

Politician. Not a leader. Never was a leader.

Biden sure has a beaming smile

Yeah. BUT, his policies led to where we are now.

The two things are connected.

Some good lines, their mess.

That was indeed a remarkable moment of candor. Fuck the country. Just put us in.

Yeah, and here we are now. If you want to go third party or Romney, then go for it. Otherwise, live and learn. And quit yer whining.

NDAA

Tbere they go again.

I don’t even know what that means.

Why should I quit whining? I was sold out by the man who said about a million times he was for a strong middle class in America.

Maybe you couldn’t have repaired Clinton, but you could have not caused it.

I can’t stand any of these liars anymore.

I used to say to my kids when they were little, “I can’t hear you when you’re whining.” I don’t like or respect Obama, but here we are. Do what you gotta do. Whining doesn’t help. Never has.

I wonder how much time Clinton spends practicing a speech. I can’t think of anyone better at speaching.

So long as the Rs control at least one house of congress they will obstruct.

good discussion; still haven’t decided who i’m voting for

Whatever. Don’t you know that commenting on blogs is just that?

Unless of course all you do is praise people when you comment.

I think 8 years of Bush had something more to do with where we are now.

They are going to win the Senate. It would take a miracle for that not to happen.

He’s a salesman, one of the best.

Like I said. The Rs will obstruct. More bi partisanship?

Fascinating, isn’t it?! He simply has the gift of gab. What’s his real name? I suspect his Irish is coming through. And, hey, politifact can check everything he is saying. He is good. Think of all those men who have that talent…..and all the people who get rolled by them. You gotta laugh.

“Many of us middle americans did just fine under Clinton’s regime. ”

Well then I guess you’re just more important than the rest of us. Lay off the criticism of Bill Clinton everyone, he helped the people who matter!

Red, Blue, they both work for the elite.

Make that almost 12 years.

I’ll be voting third party this year for the first time ever. I’ve voted for Democrats since the mid-90s. Not this time. Huge disappointment.

Fine speech, btw.

Just like before the 2010 midterm elections, Obama has announced he won’t do anything differently. It’ll be more “bipartisan” effort, more caving to Republicans, hoping that they’ll change:

“Explaining this spring how he would manage to enact his agenda in a second term, Obama was still looking forward to sitting down and cutting deals. This time, he said, Republicans would be nicer because he’s not running for re-election.”

? You personal complaint is……….

Slick Willy at his finest, bg…! ;-)

Me, I’m voting for Rocky Anderson.

Obama presided over Bush’s third term, you mean?

Obama’s energy policy isn’t helping greenhouse gasses.

He’s got it, and he’s selling it.

I’m voting NO CONFIDENCE IN THE CORRUPT SYSTEM.

That spittle bugs.

he is that!

Any President willing to start a World War, and the subsequent mobilization, might have fixed the economy in 4 yrs. Not a good idea though.

Ah…but you have to keep it going for at least three decades.

Ready didn’t whine. He made a statement of fact, and an important one in my view. But this is why I can’t watch these guys. They will charm the living daylights out of you; it’s what they do, how they got to dance with the 8,000footers, the 1% of 1%.

They are not like us.

Seldom in America have so many come to excuse so much mendacity and malfeasance as during the Clinton years. Here are some of the facts that have been buried about the man the media treats as a Democratic hero.

RECORDS SET

- Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates*
- Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
- Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
- Most number of witnesses to die suddenly
- First president sued for sexual harassment.
- Second president accused of rape**
- First first lady to come under criminal investigation
- Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign contribution case
- First president to establish a legal defense fund.
- First president to be held in contempt of court
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad
- First president disbarred from the US Supreme Court and a state court

Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin told Andrea Mitchell that Obama’s going to use Simpson-Bowles as the template for budget talks. http://video.msnbc.msn.com/mitchell-reports/48898294#48898294

I do believe it’s 80% Clinton. And if your insurance comes from you company it goes back to them. They don’t have to give you nothing.

Picky, picky, picky.

That’s what one of the speakers said tonight too.

I’m watching the Big Dog now. What a contrast — W couldn’t even make a comment from his gated Dallas subdivision, let alone show up and speak at last week’s republican convention in Tampa.

No doubt he and Cheney will be invited to speak at the Franco Pinochet summit later this year.

health insurance ≠ medical treatment

Obama’s healthcare legislation doesn’t control costs and doesn’t deliver medical treatment to everyone (not even those who think they’re going to get it). Insurance companies are not required to cover anyone’s preexisting condition gratis. And between increased premium costs, deductibles and co-pays, ACA Unlikely to Stem Medical Bankruptcies

People who voted for Obama/Democrats voted to get affordable, quality medical treatment. That was NOT a vote to protect and further enrich the insurance and pharmaceutical industries. Voters didn’t send Obama and Democrats into power to entrench the insurance industry as the gatekeepers to being able to get medical treatment. Voters did NOT send Obama and Democrats to Washington to continue tying insurance benefits to their employment.

Yet that is precisely what Obama and the DLC-controlled Democrats did.

Meet The New 1%: – Healthcare CEOs replace bankers as America’s best paid:

Pity Wall Street’s bankers. Once the highest-paid bosses in the land, they are now also-rans. The real money is in healthcare and drugs, according to the latest survey of executive pay. One example is Joel Gemunder, CEO Omnicare, who had a total pay package in 2010 worth $98 million.

Obama’s healthcare legislation is nothing more than a massive giveaway to the health insurance industry. It is one of the most corrupt pieces of legislation ever enacted by our government.

The health insurance industry provides no real service. All it does is take money out of the system. It’s nothing more than a blood-sucking middleman.

I am happy to see he is talking about medicare, that 716B is a red herring.

I don’t really see anyone whining here.

Set of brass balls says he. And he is right.

The Reds can’t and won’t get it.

But I heard that Cheney had a heart implanted since he left office. Still the same Dick?

The ‘donut-hole’ that never should have existed in the first place, and that the DLC-controlled Democrats created as a “compromise” for Bush’s Medicare Reform Act of 2003 (another massive corporate giveaway package).

The whole of Medicare Part D was a scam and a scheme by both pro-corporate parties, a “first step” (as Obama’s ‘most ardent supporters’ like to say) towards privatizing public healthcare.

In 2003, PhRMA lobbied hard and got Congress to insert language into the bill that created a Medicare drug benefit that prohibits Medicare from using its market clout to negotiate with manufacturers for lower drug prices and making sure the drug benefit was only available through private insurance plans.

The result was that Medicare members can only get drug coverage by joining a private insurance plan. People who have both Medicare and Medicaid (dual-eligibles) were switched from Medicaid prescription drug coverage to a private Medicare drug plan. Prescription drugs for this population cost 30% more under the new private Medicare drug plans than they did under Medicaid, increasing pharmaceutical companies’ profits by at least $3.7 billion dollars in just the first two years of the program. For example, Bristol Myers earned a windfall of almost $400 million, thanks to higher prices for the stroke medication Plavix.

The American taxpayer has been subsidizing pharmaceutical companies for decades with the promise that the R&D we were paying for would result in lower prices and breakthrough cures. Instead, we’ve been stuck with higher prices (twice as much as other industrialized countries) while the pharmaceutical companies try to snag new markets overseas with what were to be our discounts.

Not only did Obama break his campaign pledge (of the government, PhRma biggest customer, negotiating for lower priced drugs, and reimporting pharmaceuticals), he gave PhRma a huge gift. The deal that Obama made with PhRma wasn’t for PhRma to go up against Big Insurance; it was for PhRma to help sell a plan that makes more profits for Big Insurance.

PhRma paid chump change ($80 billion over 10 years, plus $150 million for ads to support a plan that had NO public option) so that they could keep massive profits and k!II public healthcare. Obama (who had dropped the public option and the universal requirement) let the pharmaceutical industry continue to make obscene profits, and gave the insurance industry a clear field and new customers, all paid for with taxpayers’ money.

Oh, and by the way, $80 billion over 10 years is less than 1% of the profits PhRma makes a year.

No doubt [Bush] and Cheney will be invited to speak at the Franco Pinochet summit later this year.

:)

Sorry, but you can only listen to this bullshit spin by DINOs just so long before laying out FACTS.

Clinton could sell a refrigerator to an Eskimo and then make him happy for global warming so he can use it.

No doubt he and Cheney will be invited to speak at the Franco Pinochet summit later this year.

prolly not

Yes, Obama put Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security on the table.

At last a word about medicaid. My niece would be dead by now were it not for medicaid.

Who even cares about Clinton anymore? He’s giving speeches to help a torture apologist and mass murderer get elected. He’s discredited anything good he ever might have done.

Once you know the game it’s nothing at all to not believe a word he says.

I love the enthusiasm of the posters here…. I’ll see you in the streets with signs, pitchforks, and such. Don’t make me be out there on my own~!

The health insurance industry provides no real service. All it does is take money out of the system. It’s nothing more than a blood-sucking middleman.

And the health care industry is just fine with that.

So would my friend.

Hey, let’s spend another trillion on a useless war halfway around the world.

He’s almost got me believing that there’s still a significant difference between the two parties.

Lies, they tell lies. And you know what he is right.

That shows what a good speaker he is.

There are differences between the parties, but the similarities are more numerous.

I’m listening at the DNC livestream
and it’s waAay behind the CSPAN site – I was wondering how some of you were repeating lines I hadn’t heard yet

This one I don’t agree with. We do NOT need to reduce debt.

They also try to dictate to doctors what they can and can’t do to help their patients. Not sure that’s a service, but it is something.

I’ve been going from MSNBC to Current back and forth.

Another bullshit story, how good were the surpluses.

A true story, as the results came in for Slick Willy, in ’91, a mighty cheer rose up in the Crescent City Amtrak train taking me from Ft Devens, Taxachusetts to Ft. Polk, Lousyanna…! Many were praising the fact we’d elected our first ‘Black President’…! ;-)

We need to educate Americans about the debt.

It was run up to benefit the rich and they are going to pay it off.

Because WE WON’T PAY.

When I see Rahm, not nice ideas pop into my head.

There are still a few differences:

Democrats have better rhetoric.

Democrats are better at organizing and performing at conventions.

Clinton is the guy Lyndon Johnson was talking about when he said, ” Every time I hear a guy introduce himself as just a simple, aw shucks, country boy I know at some point I’m going to have to reach back and feel if my wallet is still in my back pocket. “

Bottom line, he tells the truth about the Rs but lies about the Ds.

Good line

Double down on trickle down.

I like it.

Voting. that is an issue I definitely will support.

wow!

Does anybody realize that it was Slick Willy that repealed Glass-Steagal and ‘reformed’ Welfare…? 8-(

Thank you, marco – that’s an amazing fact. In all the discussions about the way that scheme has been set up, I have never heard an understandable statement as to why all of this was projected so far into the future. The new 1%! With years to go before we twig.

But aren’t they being sliced and diced into commodities as we speak? Our bankers may be down, but they’re not out, you betcha, not so long as that nifty deal Clinton did for them remains in effect. The biggest bubble of them all, might it be? Silly me, it is probably already going great guns in macrocomputerland where all deals are done in the blink of an eye. Yesterday’s news.

Clinton’s pushing Simpson-Bowles, that cuts Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security and puts the burden on the poor and middle classes, and lets the rich keep their ill-gotten booty.

There should be tax HIKES on corporatio­ns and the rich. There should be massive cuts to the military. Banks should be threatened with nationaliz­ation unless they begin lending to small businesses­. There have been more than 3.5 million home foreclosur­es but there are 11 million more in the pipeline — There must be principal write-down­s.

Democratic politician­s should be beating this drum, loudly, constantly, and pushing the People’s Budget instead of working off of a set of corporate lobbyists’ plans.

Why aren’t Obama, Pelosi, Reid and Democrats talking about the Progressiv­e Caucus’s budget and plan to balance the budget (reduces the deficit by $5.1 trillion)? It beats Obama’s AND Republican­s’ plans.

As Krugman has said, the Progressiv­es’ budget:

“balances the budget through higher taxes and defense cuts, plus some tougher bargaining by Medicare (and a public option to reduce the costs of the Affordable Care Act). The proposed tax hikes would fall on higher incomes, raising the cap on payroll taxes (takes care of Social Security’s solvency forever)..­. and unlike the Ryan plan, it actually makes sense.”

But Obama takes solutions that work for the People, the vast majority of Americans, off the table. Obama kneecaps and handicaps the Democratic voters who put him and Democrats into power. He’s the grifter leading off the second half of the con game, which is to squeeze the rest of the dimes from the poor and middle classes. It began with part 2 of Bush’s Medicare Reform Act of 2003 (high-pric­ed junk health insurance that has no cost controls), continues with more *AFTA treaties (outsourci­ng more Americans’ jobs) and “payroll tax ‘holidays’­” that lead to the end of Social Security.

He is one hell of a salesman I have to give him that.

hee

Did W just step out onto the stage with Bill Clinton?

Bottom line: It will be Obama or it will be Romney. Jill Stein or Rocky Anderson aren’t even going to be credible spoilers. So you get a choice: 1) Stay home, or 2)vote for Obama or vote for Romney.

Carry on.

George Will is revolting.

The Tin Man? They implanted a ticking heart shaped clock, just like in the Wizard of Oz.

Chris Mathews has nice recap.

pourmecoffee ‏@pourmecoffee

It ends with Clinton leading everyone going streaking through Charlotte.

Yes, he signed the repeal of Glass=Seagal, but I think it was Congress that presented that bill to him.

We have a choice to vote for Jill Stein or Rocky Anderson.

Why shouldn’t we?

Why should we stay home if we don’t want to vote for the two tools of the criminal elite?

I think we were in North Cackalacky, when it was being called…! ;-)

It’s easy to be a good salesman when you’re a sociopath.

I don’t say that lightly. When you have no conscience, it’s easy to sound sincere.

Either/or false dichotomies are annoying.

Voting third party is not the same thing as staying home.

ExACTly!

North Cackalacky

I never heard that before

I don’t think he does sound sincere.

It’s what’s in the listener’s mind too.

Hey, I got a good tranch of cancer treatment debt. Wanna tip?

False choice.

A third party vote is about, among other things, getting enough of a momentum for future elections, to get enough of a percentage to get a seat at the table come the next elections/debates.

No politician can claim that voters gave the winner a mandate to dismantle the New Deal/Great Society programs, as is happening when both parties begin negotiations having put these programs on the chopping block.

With great respect, baloney.

I take it back: 3) you can vote for Stein or any other 3rd party candidate. It will not matter, but you surely have that choice. My mistake for being unclear on that. Go for it!

He took on all the R talking points but he did it like a gentleman. First he said how nice they were and we should all cooperate and play nice. Then he took them apart piece by piece. Even said ryan had brass balls for lying about the 716b. And he nailed their obstructionism. Good job.

Was Impeachment proceedings in the House and Senate, a major factor in his signing it, or was he totally bought out anyways…! The defunct DLC was/is just as horrific as ALEC on the Body Politic…! 8-(

(Laughs to tears). That streaking bit was good too, Elliot. Oh dear.

You may want it to be different but it ain’t. No third party candidate in this election will make a difference. So, logically, a person can vote for a dem or a repub or they can stay home. Just like Dearie said.

Uh, isn’t that how other parties get public funding in the next election when they get over a certain percentage of the vote?

Yes, we have to vote for Obama.

We may not like the fact that he claims (and has made use of) the right to whack us, we have to vote for him.

We may not like the fact that he claims the right to imprison us for the rest of our natural lives with no judicial process, we have to vote for him.

We may not like his drone wars, but we have to vote for him.

We may not like the fact that his economic brain trust are the same people who brought us the financial meltdown of 2008, we have to vote for him.

We may not like the fact that he failed to prosecute Bushco torture (even in cases where government investigators said our prisoners died by homicide), we have to vote for him.

We may not like the fact that he’s overseen the persecution and psychological torture of Bradley Manning, we have to vote for him.

We may not like the fact that he campaigned on a platform of open government, but has prosecuted more whistleblowers than all previous presidents combined, we have to vote for him.

We may not like the fact that he said he would veto any effort by the telephone companies to get retroactive immunity for illegally helping the Cheney-Bush NSA illegally wiretap us, we have to vote for him.

It doesn’t matter what the Democratic Party does, no badly how they betray us or how they slavishly serve corporate interests while pretending to feel our pain, we have to vote for them.

Four more years! Four more years! Four more years!

I will no longer allow my vote to be taken 1) for granted, or 2) as an affirmation that I support Democrats caving to Republicans, “working in a bipartisan-fashion”, cutting any social programs, continuing wars against terror (which are really resource wars being fought for Corporate-profiteering), NDAA, invasions into my privacy, failure to prosecute white collar crimes, torturers, etc.

That’s what a vote for Obama means.

Let’s chat in, say, January. I’ve been watching 3rd party votes for years and years……and this year’s candidates are far less, shall we say, active than previous ones (Perot comes to mind.) But, hey, I’m in a (so far) safe state and it might be gratifying to vote 3rd party. (I no=voted in the primary, so that Obama might notice that we didn’t much like him out here!)

But if Romney becomes our President, …….. I have no words.

they say with much knowledge comes much sorrow!

this is the curse of the Intelligent Left.

keep in mind conventions don’t target the Intelligent

the Intelligent Left must seek other ways to change the game.

voting for 3rd parties may make you feel GREAT? but what does it do for the WE or the USA?

If you don’t like political football games, there was a real NFL game on NBC?

So I’m guessing neither of you adhere to the theory Nader lost the election for Gore in Florida?

I don’t either. Just asking though because that a real favorite among Dems.

*heh* No worries, Ellie…! ;-) Cackalacky…

The votes of people stuck in accepting the kabuki dance of these two parties matter, I suppose.

If you’re so happy with these two shitty choices, carry on.

Got to love The Onion
(possibly NSFW)

BREAKING: Bill Clinton Finally Just Shows America His Penis
http://www.theonion.com/articles/breaking-bill-clinton-finally-just-shows-america-h,29453/

I don’t think so. You build the party from the ground up. You go out and get elected chairman of the county party. Then you find the candidates to run. It’s hard. A vote for a third party goes no where not now,not four years from now. The tea party got lots of people elected. Do what they did, if you have the energy.

Yes, I can see it…don’t buy that bridge; buy THISbridge!

Ah, Clinton, we love you – those were the days!

Do not turn on tv. Do not listen to those sirens. Lash yourselves to the mast.

I believe that the election was stolen with the help of voter suppression in Florida and the appointment of Bush by the Supreme Court. Nader had nothing to do with it.

The speech by President Clinton was remarkable. In my lifetime, I know of no other pol who could have given that address.

What a remarkably gifted pol.

Gore won the popular vote. But, in truth, the campaign was Gore’s to lose, and he seemed to do it with enthusiasm. His debates were embarrassing. He just didn’t seem to care…………and his quick capitulation confirmed that. We got screwed.

x2

Well, I definitely wouldn’t want to feel GREAT, jed. That’s most persuasive.

You are making an assumption that because some people see that a third party candidate can’t win this time and have never won that they like it that way. The two party system sucks.

It is easy to blame Nader but I don’t think so. I agree the supreme court did it.

Been there, done it.

I’m an OLD old liberal Democrat, and have been fighting both in the party and in government for decades. Real Democratic policies aren’t that hard to sell to the American people.

The DLC got into power by refusing to defend the word ‘liberal’ when RonaldReag­an, Lee Atwater and KarlRove were demonizing the word. Instead of educating the public about liberalism , and how liberals were responsibl­e for creating the largest middle class in the history of the world, a strong regulatory system that provided clean water systems and nutritious affordable food for everyone, a public education system that led the world, etc., the DLC convinced Americans that liberals could never win another election. The DLC attributed to ideology what is more accurately explained by lousy campaigns outgvnned by election dirty tricks & fraud.

When informed of the issues, most Americans agree with liberal policies. Neither they (nor I) would characteri­ze themselves as far-anythi­ng or extreme, but mainstream­. For example, nobody likes the idea of abortion, but most Americans do not want the government involved if they find themselves in the predicamen­t of an unwanted pregnancy. And if you frame it as, “You like to k!ll babies?!?! ?!?!”, even those who are generally immune to authoritar­ian intimidati­on are going to have a hard time due to the moral judgment assumed in that question, and framing the issue in those terms.

If the Bush years taught us anything, it’s that anyone can sell anything to Americans, if you’re stolid and relentless in your sales pitch and tactics. It’s not that Bush and R0ve were geniuses and knew something that nobody else knew; Bush and Rove were just more ruthless in doing what politician­s and the parties had gone to great lengths to hide from Americans — If you keep at it, escalate your attacks, don’t take ‘no’ for an answer and never back away, you will wear the opposition down.

Voting for those who refuse to fight on our terms doesn’t get us what we need. Only NOT voting for them does it. Their lust for power is only fulfilled if they get into power and voting is the only power we have to make them do as we want and need.

Share with me what you plan to do. As I tell my neo=con twin, “persuade me!” I just don’t get what the angries plan to do. Tell me; make it make sense to me. Just don’t make it end up with Romney/Ryan running my life!

He is that. Tomorrow they will say we were mistaken and that is speech was very ordinary even too long. But I sure liked it.

It’s always the red teams turn then it’s the blue team.

Usually it’s more red team turns then blue though.

the smartest political mind in the USA was George Carlin

he said it best? Juliania

“Now, there’s one thing you might have noticed I don’t complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don’t fall out of the sky. They don’t pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It’s what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you’re going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain’t going to do any good; you’re just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it’s not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here… like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There’s a nice campaign slogan for somebody: ‘The Public Sucks. F*ck Hope.’” -George Carlin

Sorry but I can’t read all of that. But if you said that is what you did, great. That is what needs to be done.

Et tu, bluedot?

I don’t think Gore wanted to be president. I think he knew what was coming.

You are totally correct. I hope all the Stein people are out knocking on doors with campaign materials they make themselves.

Better to start at the local level and build from there. We have seen the 5% get to the ballot, and it is disappointing, at best. The Tea Party is quite the exception, operating inside the R party, and since the left is not going to sell fear and loathing, I don’t think we are very competitive.

But what do I know?

Aritamatik is hard a figua if you tink da eathe was made in sevven dayze. Juste sayyin.

Oh dear, oldgold; you didn’t last yourself to the mast!

Depends on how you define winning with your vote.

A vote for a third party candidate makes the statement that neither candidate put forward by the Reps and Dems is acceptable.

Nader didn’t do anything to Gore that Harry Browne, Pat Buchanan, Howard Phillips, et al (other party candidates) didn’t also do, yet you don’t hear them being blamed. Gore and Bush weren’t owed other party’s voters, and studies have shown that Nader pulled more votes from Bush than from Gore.

Those who blame Nader presume that Nader voters would’ve voted for Gore (or voted at all) when studies and exit polling have indicated that’s not the case.

Those who blame Nader voters when, had Nader not even run, had he not be in the race, Bush still would’ve won. Because Republicans had gamed that election more ways than we’re ever going to know about. They might as well blame Pat Buchanan with the same vigor and vitriole.

Al Gore won. Gore got more votes in Florida. Any way it was counted (and the biggest point that people seem to forget is that there were 179,000 perfectly readable ballots that never got counted), Gore got more votes than Bush.

Whatever the means necessary to get Bush-Cheney into the White House would’ve happened. Had Nader been in the race, had he not in the race, whatever. Had Nader not run, the outcome would’ve been the same. The powers that be were not going to let Gore win, no matter what, and gamed it innumerable ways.

If the means for getting Bush-Cheney into the White House required a close election and Nader not been running, some other means would’ve been used. Even Tennessee, Gore’s home state, was gamed to have him lose.

For pity’s sake, the CIA was working on GOP absentee ballots in the weeks leading up to election day in Florida. That was the most amazing revelation from the televised court hearings in the post-election days in Florida — ‘Charles Kane’ testified to altering absentee ballots in the Martin County’s Registrar’s office in the two week period prior to election day (it’s against the law and should render the ballots null and void). When Kane was sworn in, he had to identify himself and give his occupation and employer. Retired CIA. The judge asked him why he was altering the absentee ballots, and he answered “I go where I’m told.” Verbatim quote. The judge didn’t follow up. There was next to no news coverage of this, and none by the networks.

And then there’s Jeb Bush’s vote purging scheme.

Have people really forgotten all the different ways that that election was gamed by the GOP? And that’s just in Florida. And just the ways that we learned about because of legal proceedings in the post-election days.

There was a coup d’etat in America in 2000. A bIoodless coup, but a coup nonetheless.

And Democrats suppressed investigations, and then screwed over the Congressional Black Caucus’s attempts to expose that stolen election.

One of the reasons, to my shame and embarrassment, that I thought maybe the Dems should just let McCain win (and maybe that made some sense until he chose the Divine Miz Palin, Pole Dancer, as his running mate) so that the R’s would finally go totally into the pit. But with Palin on board, we all had to rally and elect the guy with so little experience but such a good speaker. What a friggin’ mess!

And who cares two days after the election?

That is very true. And I have to admit to being very, very tempted.

No kidding Nader didn’t do anything. That’s not what I was saying by the way.

I was saying that many Ds use Nadar as an excuse for Gore not winning.

They use it as as bludgeon when the poles get out of line and don’t want to vote for the horrible D that is being forced on them.

And yes it was a coup.

Yeah I was too. for about six seconds.

a member of the Intelligent left here

who tells the CIA what to do?

the USA govt was taken over by Oil Gangsters, Bankers, and the Department of Defense the day they killed JFK.

the CIA is a rogue organization if there ever was one

Where are the USA and China fighting now? Africa

Maybe the CIA needs the black guy in the WH to win.

Sound like you really love Big Brother, finally, blue

And the point is? [nonsequitor from GREAT - WE - USA]

I had hopes.

First past the Goalpost elections are the first thing that needs to go, Knox…!

Ha ha ha. Maybe the black guy in the WH is CIA.

I am so furious for being thrown under the bus that I am very tempted to not vote myself, but I am with Dearie, Rmoney is terrible, and that is the only motivation I have.

Two articles that speak that I think are must reads for Democratic voters are John Cusack’s Interview of Law Professor Jonathan Turley About the Obama Administration’s War on the Constitution and journalist Russell Mokhiber’s Ten Reasons I’m Not With Barack Obama.

I hear that.

I feel the same way but with a sneaky suspicion that Romney is that bad so Obama will win.

I agree with you,bgrothus. I didn’t like the plea for funds for tv commercials, and didn’t like the commercials either. I guess I’m a Luddite, but we have to do things differently and I don’t mind a bit that they are not invited, third parties that is, to the pretenses of debates. They really should be apart from all that slick marketing, makes me sick!

But that’s just me.

Let’s see. Tomorrow we get to hear Biden and Mr Big. See you then.

Hey, the CIA is getting a kick that y’all vote for your own enslavement.

There are increasing numbers of Americans who are getting fed up with both of these parties. I’d rather that they go vote for a third party candidate than just stop voting.

I’m trying to look at the bright side.

If the idiots of America insist on voting in the Rs who are going to cut their throats it would be best to have them win the triple crown.

That way the idiots will have to heap the blame on the Rs for the blood spilling out of them.

If Obama wins he is going to do the same as Romney. But the idiots will be able to heap all the blame on him.

Leaving us with more Rs in our future.

I like Jonathan Turley very much……….but, hey, are you suggesting that I then vote Romney? I don’t think so. I do NOT like Obama, and I’ve never been a Democrat (tho I’ve mostly voted Democrat over the past 40+ years)… yes, a must=read. But even if I’m not pro=Obama, I can guarandamntee you that I won’t be voting for Romney. So what’s yer point???

Enjoyed Bill Clinton’s speech and response to GOP/wealthy donors false talking points. Thought Clinton’s speech was well written and delivered. It is wearing to not trust or to be cynical all the time, however, will get my resolve back. Was happily surprised to see Obama come out to thank Clinton. Hope I’m not a sucker. Perhaps Romney would actually be worse. Will there ever be anyone who will not disappoint too much as president?
–OK. Going back to reruns of ‘Leave It To Beaver’ and ‘Gidget.’

Yep. [Donning my birthday suit for that streak - has it happened yet?]

I got a push-poll call tonight that was clearly set up by someone sympathetic to the R party. I told the person asking the questions that I was giving answers that reflected my disgust with the methodology they were using. I hope I fucked it up good.

maybe?

I have a feeling the people who run the USA, don’t like the idea of leaving their dreams and ambitions in the hands of avg. americans.

the last time the USA military fought a war to keep the USA safe was probably WW2

all these other wars have been Corporate Wars fought for USA business interest.

The 1960′s changed the USA? the bad guys won

the Left help, the crooks, end the draft, which made war very easy!

guys, i enjoyed this but i gotta put another kid on another plane early tomorrow– 2nd time in a week so i gotta hit the hay; g’nite

Maybe we all should stop voting just to show our masters we don’t believe this charade anymore.

We already have one of the lowest-participating democracies in the world. I don’t think that will show anyone anything.

There’s not doubt they don’t leave it to us.

As for wars, they aren’t even fought for corporate interests, unless you mean the military industrial complex interests which needs equipment destroyed so they can endlessly offload more on us.

A big zero would be a beautiful thing.

Imagine, we would really descend into Orwellian territory then.

They would keep on trying to brain wash us that we live in a Democracy despite no one voting for anyone.

Ya know, the old ones know they’ve fucked things up. It just gets worse and worse.

It’ll take much more than enduring Romney to stop those m’fuckers.

Yeah, that is powerful.

I agree

welcome to the IRON TRIANGLE!

IKE told us this would happen

Our only hope may come from Generals who are saying, to beat China, Russia, etc. will require the USA having a strong MFG base!

if we go to war with China or any other nation in the future, we may need the ability to make our tanks, ships, planes,, in the USA.

Yes! the USA military likes the idea of a strong USA middle class.

the USA made a huge mistake putting a CIA chief in the WH, BUSH SR, was the wrong person to put in the WH.

keep in mind BUSH SR. gave us NEW WORLD ORDER

The main thing is, stop them wherever you can. Every little bit helps.

A word, an action, a vote.

NO is what we must collectively say to them.

I disagree, Ready…! I do want to pick my local dog catcher, amongst others…! All politics are truly local…!

OK, vote for your dog catcher, and leave the rest as zero.

Oh yeah. Anyone with a brain in this country knew we were in trouble when they openly put the head of the CIA in the WH.

And they yell about Puten. Hypocrites through and through.

Real warmongers care!

Gave us whiplash @ the end, comrade.

Dear, dear folk all; what is your vote? Isn’t it a signature of approval for this or that candidate? People can mistakenly vote for one or another candidate thinking that person means what he or she says, and be disappointed. But you can live with that – you were mistaken and it’s bad, so you will try to choose wisely the next time. This has nothing to do with who is likely to win; this is not a bet; this is not a lottery ticket. If your candidate loses, you are not a loser because you didn’t go with ‘the winning team.’ Yet, that seems to be the philosophy of many – unless the candidate has a chance of winning, why vote for him or her?

How can that be, in the words of this convention, ‘the way forward?’

We stand, in so many ways, at the edge of a precipice that none of us willfully wanted. Brought here by a series of political decisions that were mindfully awful, by people we chose as leaders. We know now who they are.

Can we vote for them again? I say no, we can’t.

We may not win. But I do not think we should choose either of these shameful candidates; we really should not. Not when we see them for what they are, and we do see them that way. Both parties have obstructed meaningful reform in order to line the pockets of the uberwealthy. And we need meaningful reform, desperately, four years back. This is very bad.

Vote; vote your conscience. That’s all. And may the best person for the job get the most votes.

I had thought about writing in Barr/Sheehan…! ;-)

I should add that Roseanne does indeed own a Nut Farm, just up the coastline from me…! ;-)

I reject the premise.

A vote isn’t just what you say it is; there is a variety of strategies about casting a vote. One of these strategies is “defensive” or also known as choosing your enemy.

When there is no Electoral College, a parliamentary style vote is perfectly sensible, but we ain’t got perfectly sensible.

So my advice to 3rd party advocates is quit labeling defensive voters as “evil.” You’ll get more 3rd party candidates if you stop doing that, for one, and also happen to be actively promoting candidates for many slots in many districts for the variety of positions available.

I hear “Stein for President!” or “Anderson for President!” alla time, but no senator or congressional candidates at all, or worth consideration.

And just answer me this – what is President Stein going to do with a Republican House, hmmmm?

So this LOTE individual voter bashing? Long as you keep doing it without the whole package being addressed, well, I’m pretty comfortable ignoring that purity judgment.

Particularly since I don’t believe that this one quadrennial event of choice is defining about “evil” or “conscience” since that is defined by every single day actions.

So she’s out of the Greens and in with the Peace and Freedom.

Makes me feel better about the Greens. Never cared for her much.

Bravo, Kelly…! We very much need to act locally, and get involved in the sausage-making at the local level, period…! If not, don’t b*tch…!

Darn tootin’ :)