In addition to the tragic situation in Libya, another international incident simmered last night, on the subject of Israel and Iran. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu made a speech claiming that the US had “no moral right” to intervene in a potential Israeli attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities, unless they too set a “red line” for the nuclear program.
In a blistering response to a Sunday statement by Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton that the United States is “not setting deadlines” for Iran to abandon its alleged weapons program, Netanyahu said that if no “red line” is established, Iran will continue to pursue an atomic bomb.
“The world tells Israel: ‘Wait. There’s still time.’ And I say, ‘Wait for what? Wait until when?’ Those in the international community who refuse to put red lines before Iran don’t have a moral right to place a red light before Israel,” Netanyahu told reporters in Jerusalem.
This is an issue freighted with domestic politics. Netanyahu has made little secret out of wanting to attack. What we can definitely say about the Obama Administration is that they want no part of this in the 50 days or so between now and the election. They have foregrounded the notion that time must be given for sanctions to work, and behind the scenes there have been indications that they have lobbied against an Israeli strike.
There are local Israeli politics at issue as well. Ehud Barak, the Defense Minister, reportedly turned against an attack in the past several weeks. There are elections next year, and Barak could be setting himself up for a break with the Likuds and a return to the opposition. Netanyahu’s window is short not just because of US politics, but because of politics in his own country.
The tensions between the US and Israel continued, when Netanyahu reportedly sought a meeting with President Obama at the opening of the UN General Assembly at the end of the month. The White House refused, citing scheduling issues. Then the two leaders had a long talk via phone last night. The readout tries to downplay the tensions, but there wasn’t really a need for the discussion without them.
President Obama spoke with Prime Minister Netanyahu for an hour tonight as a part of their ongoing consultations. The two leaders discussed the threat posed by Iran’s nuclear program, and our close cooperation on Iran and other security issues. President Obama and Prime Minister Netanyahu reaffirmed that they are united in their determination to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon, and agreed to continue their close consultations going forward. Contrary to reports in the press, there was never a request for Prime Minister Netanyahu to meet with President Obama in Washington, nor was a request for a meeting ever denied.
Kevin Drum reads this as Netanyahu trying to create an international incident because he’s playing for Team Republican. I’m not sure of this – he simply thinks, wrongly, that his country’s security depends on him striking Iran, and he is using whatever channels he can to remove barriers to that attack. Plus he believes, perhaps rightly (I don’t have a good grasp on this), that an attack will boost his profile in Israel before their elections. This meets with everything Netanyahu has said in public. It’s apocalyptic, but it reflects his true intentions. And that’s what makes the situation in the Middle East right now so terrifying.




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I think Netanyahu sees a chance to pressure Obama as election gets closer, knowing that unprincipled Romney will demogogue on this and freighten Team Obama into making calls they would otherwise avoid. Very dangerous mix.
I think this constant blabbering by Netanyahu is a red herring to distract the world from this:
“As of November 1, Israeli authorities had demolished 467 Palestinian homes and other buildings in the West Bank (including East Jerusalem), displacing 869 people, a rate that means Israel will have forcibly displaced more West Bank Palestinians in 2011 than during any year since the UN started collecting cumulative figures in 2006.
The Israeli NGO Peace Now reported that from October 2010, when Israel ended its temporary settlement “building freeze,” to July 2011 construction began on 2,598 new settlement homes, and another 2,149 new homes were completed.
Settlers also continued to take over Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem, based in part on laws that recognize Jewish ownership claims there from before 1948 but bar Palestinian ownership claims from that period in West Jerusalem.”
http://www.hrw.org/world-report-2012/world-report-2012-israeloccupied-palestinian-territories
This asshole is his own greater evil.
Bibi wants to be a War President like Bush.
Mitt’s money man Sheldon Adelson is siding with Israel. I wonder if he’s on the phone to Mitt giving him his talking points.
Why don’t our politicians start wearing their Zionist dog collars so that there is no doubt who’s running our foreign policy?
I agree David. I don’t think has anything to do with US, Obama or Romney. Israel will look out for themselves and do what they feel they need to do.
You can take that to the bank. I think they have made it clear they don’t give a shit what we want or think. And that includes Romney and his little jewish benefactor. The Israelis are smart. They know Romney has lost this election. OTOH< they probably would rather not piss off Obama. If indeed that's even possible.
I’ve decided Nuttyahoo is your typical bully who goes cringing away when it comes time to show that he’s more than bluster.
Heck, last military adventure of Israel was Lebanon 2006 where the vaunted IDF had to go crawling home with their tales betw their legs, having suffered humiliating defeat at the hands of penniless Hezballah.
Nope. The only thing Nuttyahoo is capable of doing now is using multi-gagillion dollar military planes to bomb defenseless Gazans.
Could be. I’ve got friends in Israel and the “people” don’t want a war with Iran. I honestly think that would be their last choice. But they are willing to take it. With opur without OUR consent.
“What we can definitely say about the Obama Administration is that they want no part of this in the 50 days or so between now and the election…”
In other words, 1 day after the election Obama (yes, he’ll beat Rmoney) will go all BushCo on us.
Bibi is creating a Strawman argument even if Israel attacks Iran would America ever send planes, troops etc to stop Israel from attacking Iran? In the current political climate will America even cut off weapons and cash for Israel?
I won’t argue that.
The problem is that the Iranian nucleur program is so darned far underground that the experts I spoke to down at Hooters, said “They ain’t no bombs that will penetrate them bunkers. You jus’ gonna blow up a buncha desert and piss ‘em off.”
These guys were in the military and they talk like that. But they know a lotta shit.
I don;t know about that. I don’t think Obama wants a fight, especially if Israeli can handle the matter.
Israel has no military capacity to damage anything other than civilians in Iran and Iran has huge capability of retaliating.
Agree he wants a power grab that war could provide Bibi had protests last year to deal with when the economy is bad Wag the Dog takes people’s minds off the economy. The next question is just how bad is Israel’s economy and what will Bibi do to stay in power?
Will he tax the rich more and create jobs or will he hope attacking Iran takes peoples minds off his bad economy?
Maybe partial or full disclosure would be helpful here: Do you happen to live on territory that Manifest Destiny ‘settled’?
If Israel does attack Iran $10 a gallon gas might make cutting money and weapons to Israel politically possible the next question is just how stupid is Bibi?
My understanding is the Israelis would haved to launch a “Delta Force” type assault to rid the world of those pesky Iranian nukes.
What say ye??
Iran doesn’t have nukes.
Well……..Iranian bombs raining down on Tel Aviv would certainly be a distraction. But I don’t think would gain him any points. He’s definately got a “sticky wicket” over there.
When the Democratic platform was changed to make Aipac happy, I sent an e-mail to the White House asking if our party and the US was being run by Israel. I’m thoroughly fed up with this. Yahu is a lunatic and I’m not willing to lose even one American life to support his mad schemes in the ME.
Stupidity????????? Hard to objectively measure. Althrough there have been exceptions…Perry, Bachmann, Palin, Santorum, Gary Busey.
Two Wrongs don’t make a right however I am open to talking about giving the American Indians cash but can’t we do that on another thread? Lets stay focused an Israeli attack on Iran means $10 or more gas and thats an immediate problem for all Americans.
I admit and hope that maybe Bibi is just full of hot air. If so then Bibi is just trying to rally the NeoCon vote for Mitt but after the Bush Presidency just how many votes is that really?
I assume Bibi wants Mitt in the WH because Mitt is tough on Iran. But after losing 2 wars America very well might revolt if we get $10 a gallon gas.
‘Scuse me……”potential nucleur capabilities”.
If Iran attacks first then Bibi has a case for war. Current economic sanctions on Iran seem designed to do this but are those sanctions working? Just how long can we afford gas over $4 a gallon in Forest Park ( near Chicago)?
I suspect after the election Obama and the EU will quietly drop the sanctions. Next question can Mitt aford to keep the sanctions going long enough to force Iran to attack?
Grand Ayatollah issued fatwa on more than one occasion that nuke bomb is unIslamic. Most recent was at NAM2012 a couple of weeks ago, a lengthy & eloquent speech. Ayatollahs are in charge of Iran’s foreign policy.
You think Iran would attack Israel?
“…nuke is unislamic”.
Musta missed that memo. Let’s see what TCU say to my #27
Given Echan’s reminding us about Israel’s last war well past action does tend to predict future acts. So it is possible. I am sure Bibi is convinced this time will be different.
Unlike Iraq, where sanctions went thru U.N. so had a lot of compliance, sanctions against Iran are just U.S. and a few of its comical sidekicks. They are having some influence but most countries are thumbing their nose at the U.S., and where there is influence, like inability to get insurance for Iranian oil tankers, workarounds are occurring.
U.S. will never drop sanctions, only keep ratcheting them up. Witness Cuba.
Link.
Ha! Netanyahu, as long as Israel has nuclear weapons exactly what moral right does it have to place red lines before its neighbors without them? Is MAD a legitimate policy or what? When Israel gets rid of its nuclear arsenal it can talk about moral rights. Until then it has all the moral authority of any other fundamentalist, fear-mongering saber-rattler.
What makes you sure?
Only if the sanctions were working and it seems they are not working as well thankfully as we hope. Oil sales by Iran are how much of their economy so if sanctions were working Iran can either attack us, let their people starve or give up nuclear power.
If we were serious about ending Iran’s nuclear power would we not be giving them solar and wind power in exchange for them shutting down their nuclear reactor and enriching uranium?
We offered North Korea Food, Cash and I believe a power plant but they still made a nuclear bomb so I can see why we would need to be more careful this time and demand unlimited onsight inspection.
However Iran has every legal right to make a Nuclear reactor and enrich uranium.
If we attack them we are starting another illegal war.
The bottomline is, Bibi will do whatever it takes to hold on to power.
DDay, I wonder if you have any follow up to Ehud Barak being part of a new Gov’t headed by Livni …
“It’s apocalyptic, but it reflects his true intentions. And that’s what makes the situation in the Middle East right now so terrifying.”
So what is a sane US response to avoid an apocalyptic outcome? Withdraw its political, financial and military support of Israel.
Good then Iran won’t attack but that still does not mean Obama or Mitt won’t after the election.
If we attack Iran small cheap fuel efficient car makers followed by Hybrid car makers and GM’s Volt sales will go through the roof just which car company has the capacity to up production quickly?
Right Wingers tend to love wars and like all people in love ignore any flaws in what they love. Its like tax cuts for the GOP economy is good tax cut economy is bad more tax cuts.
Iran won’t attack who? To my knowledge, Iran has not threatened to attack anyone.
WRT next POTUS attacking Iran, just a slightly bigger bully than Nuttyahoo. U.S. needs shitty little country to throw against the wall.
Heck even Syria is proving too much of a match for U.S.
On the plus side a war with Iran would make wind and solar stocks go through the roof and reduce global warming.
After seeing the debacle in Afghanistan & Iraq, I doubt that friendlies inside Iran would encourage Obama to attack … quite the opposite, actually.
The Israelis are hardly running US foreign policy. The Israelis don’t tell the US what to do, the US tells Israel. Does Israel subsidize the US military?
US military aid to Israel has increased by 50% since 9/11. If the US doesn’t like Netanyahu’s war-mongering or Israel’s treatment of its neighbors all it has to do is remove its support. I Yet it doesn’t. Fretting about extreme words and actions by Netanyahu is bullshit propaganda theater.
http://www.wrmea.org/archives/373-washington-report-archives-2011-2015/november-2011/10815-congress-watch-a-conservative-estimate-of-total-us-aid-to-israel-more-than-123-billion.html
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf
Yes.
Israel doesn’t have the capability of attacking Iran. It is too far, Israel has no midair refueling capacity (at least that’s what I remember; if I’m wrong someone correct me), direct route is over Iraq, which prolly doesn’t have any air defenses (didn’t see how that departure of U.S. troops was worked out; presumably U.S. had them, don’t know if they dismantled them before they left or whether they were turned over to Iraqis), but prolly does had good radar so can warn Iran.
Or fly an even longer route over Saudi Arabia. Which happens to be across the Persian Gulf, including its oil region, from Iran. Not so sure about how eager they’d be to grant Israelis permission.
America Israel
http://www.globalresearch.ca/economic-sanctions-on-iran-a-declaration-of-war/
I assume Iran is weighing their options all option including war in regard to our economic sanctions and thats why I am glad to hear they are not working.
Iran can only beat us by striking first and striking all oil tankers in the Gulf given the number of American Military bases in the Persian Gulf countries they would all be regarded as American allies and thus legal targets if Iran were to attack first.
Iran can’t beat our army but if they sink every oil tanker in the gulf they can beat us by destroying our oil dependent economy.
Agreed Friendless in Iran do not want us to attack Iran I did not mean to imply otherwise.
I am reminded of when Israel bombed and empty desert site in Syria in 2007, dubbed in wiki Operation Orchard.
U.S., Israel claimed it was a nuke site, but pics I saw showed no fences or any other impediment to ground accessibility.
I wonder if it wasn’t just an empty warehouse, with maybe a little radioactive pixie dust scattered around, to entice precisely such a bombing. Purpose would have been a test run for Syria to see the capabilities of its air detections systems.
Just a random thought.
If Syria gleaned info, they likely passed it on to Iran, and now to Iraq.
Israel would have to fly over Iraq to attack Iran plus they have no long range bombers so damage to Iran’s underground Uranium enrichment plants would be minimal there is doubt wether even American buster bunker bombs would work as you noted Israel’s attack on Lebanon was a failure Israeli bombers could not destroy the missile silos quick enough to stop their firing on Israel. I am sure Iran has much better anti aircraft defenses than Lebanon did.
I am not saying an Israeli or even American attack could work but Lrfty warnings did little to stop Bush when we warned him.
When have facts stopped the Right from declaring war? I agree with your facts but facts work only when someone listens.
Netanyahu is Pouting Baby. Pouting Baby is running his own developed nation and wants to control another nation’s-US-treasury, military and policy. He needs to STHU because he and Israel refused to sign the non-proliferation agreement while continuing to go by the policy of ‘nuclear ambiguity.’ Total BS. Thinking Iran DID sign the NPT. Iran looks like it is playing by the rules better than Israel. Iranians appear to show great restraint in dealing with the annoying Isaelis. And Mitt wants to go in? If anything, to protect Iran from Israel.
The passage you cite is not a threat to militarily attack the U.S., but as it says,
Which Iran has been doing by the workarounds and other nonmilitary means.
My biggest hope is the thought of $10 a gallon gas will stop Obama and or Mitt from declaring war.
I hope they are successful otherwise they have to choose between giving up nuclear power and lossing the billions they spent, starvation or war.
In 2011 there was the greatest increase in US financial and (mostly) military aid to Israel in a decade. That same year also saw one of the greatest increases in Israel’s persecution of the Palestinians in about the same time period. Of course, this is only a correlation.
U.S. behavior of military interventions only in countries to weak to fight back.
Israel’s pathetic bombing of Gaza.
Both countries’ behaviors show strong recognition of their military incapabilities.
Obama needs to attack Mitt on foreign policy and say war with Iran means $10 + a gallon of gas.
There is an hypothesis that bombing Gaza and Nuttyahoo belligerent speeches are shiny objects while Israel grabs more Palestinian land.
Consistent with the correlation you point to.
Do you remember if there was any mid-air refueling capability in the recent military gifts to Israel?
Israel will have to get their bunker-busters from the US, which according to several sources, they have already acquired from Obama.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/09/23/president-obama-secretly-approved-transfer-of-bunker-buster-bombs-to-israel.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/julian-borger-global-security-blog/2011/sep/27/iran-nuclear-weapons
For those who think Israel dictates policy to the US, you all might want to look into this issue.
Demand for Iranian oil going up despite U.S. & EU sanctions, LOL.
I think Iran is to strong to attack we could not beat Afghanistan or Iraq and unless we send ground troops in to take out Iran’s nuclear capacity bombing will only delay Iran’s Uranium enrichment program.
Bombing however would likely mean Iran sends every oil tanker in the Persian Gulf to the bottom of the sea.
Our Ships can’t stop Iran from doing this. So the next question is just how dumb is Obama Mitt I fear is that dumb.
From your first link
That’s sooo Obama. He sells Israel bb bombs & they thumb their noses at him & build more settlements.
Good news now the only worry is Obama and Mitt after the election but I believe weather is a factor and any attack would have to be in spring November right after the election might be to late to attack Iran.
I don’t know about recently, but Israel has had C-130s since the 1970s and similar types that can be used for mid-air refueling.
For most things military of this sort, I usually start by with Federation of American Scientists http://www.fas.org/
Indeed. Although I doubt Obama gives a fuck about the Palestinians beyond what mentioning their plight might do for him politically. You know, just like progressives, or teachers, or the poor, or . . .
Thanks for the link, but I’ve done a bit of mucking about in a complicated technical website recently & lost my patience for more.
If attack seems likely, I’ll revisit my priorities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_operations_of_the_2006_Lebanon_War
O cares about all those groups, in the sense of how much they get in the way of letting his masters have everything.
Israel is acting like a spoiled child. They’re trying to get dad to beat up the other kid on the block, who’s maybe trying to build a fort.
Thankfully, I don’t have any sons to send to die for Israel.
That’s probably a better way to put it.
Israel serves US imperial interests in the Middle East. Part of the deal for US military support of Israel is that they take the heat for many of the risky military adventures that serve US interests. This compromise is the essence of the charade for US public consumption.
Exactly. Israel, having successfully consolidated it’s apartheid state, is now beginning ethnic cleansing. Concern about Iran is a huge distraction.
The difference between the US and Israel is this. Israel’s red line is “nuclear capability”; Iran passed that when the Shah purchased and Atoms for Peace reactor. The US red line is “nuclear weapon”. And there is no evidence thus far of a nuclear weapons program. Obama is thus faced with keeping the crazy uncle in the attic–at least until after the election.
And like Obama, as well.
Why would you even wonder about something that obvious?
Yes, but can you keep this Yahoo in the attic when this will be highly poliicized by the Rs. If he sees an advantage to start a war now he may do it. Either way I suspect he has a deadline at year end. If Romney is elected how,long do you think it will take?
Obama will do whatever his adoptive father G.H.W.Bush tells him to do. He’ll manage to fulfill the tasks that his step-brother “W” left unaccomplished.
The US didn’t object to the Israeli attack on the aid flotilla that killed a US citizen. There was no outrage for the murder and subsequent declaration of innocence for the killer of Rachel Corrie. Israel suffered no retribution for its attack on the USS Liberty. I sense a pattern here.
Both of these corporatist sociopaths need to go away and stop plaguing the people of the US with their BS and destructive policies.
I would love to hear Mitt and Obama’s view on that! :)
Don’t hold your breath waiting for a response from either of those sociopaths, you’ll just wind up passing out.
The well-reasoned point remains unremarked .Net would go war in a second without our okay if Israel faced an imminent threat ,as well he should ,and we would support him ,as well we should .Net wants us to fight the war with our troops ,because one dead Israeli is more tragic than many thousands of our troops .That’s Zionism ,so what ? The answer is the sad reality that our public servants agree that Americans are manifestly more expendable than Israelis .Every day Romney avers his pathological love for Israel and his disdain for the poor and the working – class.Obama probably feels the same ,but he has the advantage of not being a political autistic .
Mitt and Bibi worked together years ago at Boston Consulting Group.
……………
http://crooksandliars.com/blue-texan/bibi-netanyahu-no-mitt-romney-isnt-clos…………..
Where Mitt learned how to destroy companies for profit.