Nothing makes me want to swap all the political reporters in America for one night than a Presidential debate. The frustrated theater critic in all of them come out when they opine intensely about this candidate being tired or that one being energetic or this one looking down too much or that one looking at his opponent. I think the ABC News roundup of “telling gestures and emotions” pretty much sums it up.
What jumped out at me, and I suspect the public, was that you had Jim Lehrer come out and start with this question: “What are the major differences between the two of you about how you would go about creating new jobs?” The theme of his questions for the night, trying to see if two people vying for the Presidency are running on different platforms, was ridiculous. But the question concerned jobs. The next 15 minutes sauntered into a discussion about taxes. Then the deficit. Then “entitlements” (Obama actually meekly tried to push back on the use of that word).
This was the great disconnect for me. There is a fire in America that has not been put out. And Washington wants to ignore the existence of that fire. So they hold very serious discussions about the color of the drapes and the placement of the dining room table and the pattern of the wallpaper. In the burning building. And inevitably, this rebounds badly on the President. He of course doesn’t want to talk about the jobs crisis, because it’s still with us four years after the last election. His stimulus package did a decent job, but obviously not enough. And the reason Mitt Romney has been perceived to have won the debate is that, on three separate occasions, he got to say something like this:
My priority is putting people back to work in America. They’re suffering in this country. And we talk about evidence. Look at the evidence of the last four years. It’s absolutely extraordinary. We’ve got 23 million people out of work or stopped looking for work in this country. It’s just — it’s — we’ve got — when the president took office, 32 million people on food stamps; 47 million on food stamps today; economic growth this year slower than last year, and last year slower than the year before.
Going forward with the status quo is not going to cut it for the American people who are struggling today.
This is slightly wrong: the 23 million figure includes those who have part-time work and want more hours. But it’s the fundamental question in this country. President Obama said early on that “the question is not where we’ve been, but where we’re going.” But I think what people wanted to hear about last night is where we are. This profile of students in Merced, one of the struggling towns in California’s Central Valley, speaks to that:
The city has the nation’s second highest foreclosure rate and an unemployment rate that at 17.5% is twice the national average. It is also a city that is nearly 50% Latino, a voting block both candidates are trying to woo.
“We’re on just about every list it seems like,” said Mike Murphy, a Republican and Merced city councilman who helped lead a community discussion on the University of California-Merced campus after the debate. “People’s priorities here (are) jobs, jobs, jobs.” [...]
People in Merced want “to see what either administration is going to do with unemployment and foreclosures,” said Josh Pedrozo, a Democrat and Merced city councilman who also helped lead the post debate discussion.
“Merced is ground zero for all of those concerns,” said Dorie Perez, a Merced native who is pursuing her doctorate in political science at the local University of California campus. “I want a plan and articulation of policies that I haven’t seen. I want the bread and butter.”
Most of these issues were left unaddressed; the only discussion of housing concerned the qualified residential mortgage rule, which is really stunning. But one candidate, Gov. Romney, could at least credibly articulate the fire, even if he had no plan to put it out. The President made a minor effort right at the start to say that he has brought 5 million private sector jobs back since the nadir, but it didn’t really register.
Ultimately, these debates don’t matter much electorally. What does matter is that it shows the focus of the political class. One is exploiting the jobs crisis without a plan to fix it, and the other doesn’t want you to know it’s there.
…see also here.





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Stoller has a perceptive piece over at Yves’ place this morning that I think accurately sums up Obama’s performance and place in history. http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/10/post-debate-analysis-the-media-can-now-get-the-electoral-horse-race-it-wants.html He is only comfortable when talking about himself.
It’s hard to see how he could have done anything more to discourage progressives from voting for him in swing states (I am assuming he won’t get the votes in the Blue or Red States where it won’t make any difference one way or another). He made it quite clear that the SS and Medicare Fix is in.
He doesn’t want the progressives in swing states. He wants the mythical ‘undecided middle’.
Performing together for the first time, President Obama and Mitt Romney did their best impressions of Clint Eastwood debating empty chairs.
No word on whether either has been invited to appear on America’s Got Talent.
It is rumored that Jim Lehrer has been offered a part in an up coming Twilight Zone movie as a store mannequin.
obama is a corporatist and insists on “creating jobs in the private sector” by firing people in the public sector
here’s a news flash for the zero;
when your country is desperate for jobs the solution is not eliminating jobs
you don’t fire people, you don’t make them wait to take a retirement they’ve invested all of their lives, you don’t create trade agreements that encourage over seas production
just sayin
The talking heads of cable news have declared Romney the winner in tonight’s debate. But here is what most non-partisan viewers likely concluded:
This is why Romney lost:
1) He came on like that kid in school who keeps jerking his hand up and pleading, “O-o-me, me, me!
2) As in keeping with his well-known narcissism, he can never calmly endure when someone else is talking instead of himself. He needs rapt exclusive attention at all times: it’s all about him all the time and he showed it throughout this debate.
3) He bullied the moderator
4) He patronized the President by his condescending expression, like some smug self-impressed superior to an inferior.
5) Finally, his hyper personality was not only unpresidential, it was downright painful to watch….
Oh, and he talked too fast, like a useded car salesman….
speaking of jobs, green jobs
“Oct 3 – McClatchy-Tribune Regional News – Christopher Bjorke Grand Forks Herald
A week after LM Wind Power announced it would cut more than 300 jobs at its manufacturing facility in Grand Forks, the company said it would create 300 jobs at a new factory in Brazil.
The Danish company said there was no connection between the two events, but was instead a reaction to strong growth in wind power development in South America while the industry was losing momentum in the United States.
“The development of capacity in Brazil is about positioning the company for growth in a new and rapidly emerging market for wind energy,” wrote Christopher Springham, LM vice president for global communication, who reiterated the company’s justification of the Grand Forks layoffs, in an email to the Herald.
“Our reductions are a necessary response to the uncertainty caused by federal government policy and specifically the urgent need to renew the PTC,” he wrote.”
http://www.renewablesbiz.com/article/12/10/lm-wind-power-expands-brazil
Great perspective. Bull’s eye. And to think there could have been a decent chance for remedy — 3rd party participation, if only to get the issues out there — pull the establishment out of their own slime.
I see you’ve been posting that on several threads.
I am curious as to why it is so at odds with all the other analysis by Pierce, Stollar, and several commentors here.
Please enlighten us further.
Thanks for your update, DDay. I commend you for having the stomach to watch this b.s. Sounds predictably horrible.
Here’s my shorter:
Lying Liars LIED last night, whilst less than useless debate “moderator” rolled over and played dead.
feh…
From where I sit in the nose-bleed section of the peanut gallery, sounds to me like neither RMoney or DMoney “won” the debate. But as per usual, the 99% LOST and LOST BIG.
Wake me when something different occurs… won’t hold my breath.
“There is a fire in america that has not been put out.”
That’s an excellent description. And Barack Obama rode into the White House in a bright, shiny, new fire engine…and for whatever reason, whether it was a planned sellout, or just stupid political incompetence, he proceeded to hand the keys to it to a republican party that was thoroughly beaten and in complete disarray.
They took delivery joyfully, no doubt stunned at his generosity.
That Obama should not be held responsible for the…turnover…is nonsense. I think that’s what this election is going go hinge on.
I also think:
Dissing Jim Lehrer for asking that question about differences is wrong. It was a great question; designed to cut the bullshit and give both of them a chance to define themselves for the american electorate. Obviously, neither of them much wanted to answer. Both are playing it fairly close to the vest. Romney’s running as “not Obama”, and Obama’s riding the “I suck less!” pony. But Romney was passionate about his “let the rich get richer and we’ll be OK!” bullshit, while Obama looked like an undertaker trying to teach embalming tecnniques.
Lastly, the idea that what happened last night is of minimal importance is just wrong, on the face of it. Romney has, for the time being, stopped the bleeding. His poll numbers are sure to go up, as a direct result of how much he enjoyed taking it to Obama with his generalized, non-specific, attacks.
What Romney did last night worked, and it was a metaphor for all that’s been wrong with Obama and his presidency. There has been a huge leadership vacuum, and the republicans have exploited it, as anyone should have seen they would. Romney’s just the latest repub to do it. I look for more of the same, in the next debates, and since Obama simply doesn’t like to confront the assholes, no matter how wrong or duplicitous they are, Romney really can’t lose by going after him. Accuracy won’t matter so much, as long as his tone is fairly judicious, and last night, it was.
NOT a disconnect–an expression of both candidates’ shared view of the importance of deficits and budget-balancing over our crying needs. UTTERLY telling. Keynes is dead; long live Pinochet/Friedmanomics.
“this is why Romney lost…”
Just check the snap polls that have come out, and then watch the ones that follow.
Heheh. Nice description.
I wish I could have my hour and a half back. What a Colossal waste of time. Those two candidates are playing for the same team, and they appear to be submitting job proposals to the economic elites rather than campaigning for votes from regular people. What a scam.
Greg Palast is angry.
I think you just wrote TMZ’s piece for them. Well done. Thank you for entirely ignoring any matter remotely resembling substantive.
Is that the pony that TBogg and his commenters keep talking about?
My assessment is simpler.
Romney won the debate because he simply lied about everything he really believes through his teeth. Pure and simple.
Obama lost for the opposite reason. What you saw was the reality, the *President* Obama, instead of *candidate* Obama. While candidate Obama might say attractive things at time and promise to help the 99%, the real man is President Obama–you know, the guy with “my Republican friends” with all their “good ideas”, the guy who wouldn’t prosecute war criminals and torturers (wouldn’t be bipartisany, ya know), the guy who thinks that slashing “entitlements” that people paid for in advance is the solution to the budget problem rather than tax increases or slashing Humana’s or Lockheed-Martin’s or BP’s gravy trains. The guy who spurned the Krugmans and Robert Reichs to be his economic advisors for Timmeth and Larry. The guy who thinks that Rahm has better political instincts than an FDR. THAT guy.
And Americans don’t really like that Obama. He was winning in candidate mode. He even could have been a successful president instead of a failure if he had governed in candidate mode.
-stewartm
Not fussing at you, perris. This jumped out at me:
“you don’t make them wait to take a retirement they’ve invested all of their lives, ”
What retirement? My husband’s prior employer, big 1% Obama contributor, just tossed his underfunded retirement program into the lap of the PBGC, and Osterity is giving Simpson and Bowles a simultaneous lap-dance. What retirement?
Chris Hedges is right.
For what’s worth, Romney’s support for Obama’s Race-to-the-Top education reforms and Obama’s statement that “we’ve got a somewhat similar position” on Social Security reform made me laugh. Both candidates were eagerly taking center-right to right positions. I guess there will be no pony deliveries in the next four years.
Yeah, it was pretty bad.
I did not think I was going to make it past the first five minutes. Both candidates clearly ignored the flow that Lehrer was meekly attempting to establish. Instead they began sound-biting and spinning as hard as they could. I started to get a claustrophobic feeling that only arises from being trapped in a room with fools.
Fortunately, I was watching the debate on Democracy Now, so I was sustained by the knowledge that I would soon hear counterpoint from Jill Stein and Rocky Anderson. It was worth it.
That’s because Romney is trying to sell that line of bull shit overtly and Obama has to pretend to oppose it while pushing it through in practice. No Drama Obama has no passion because he has no principles to defend.
Nice try, but Obama looked tired and bored and even angry he had to be there. His handlers have obviously told him he has the election “in the bag,” so he didn’t bother to prep and it showed. If he believed he has it won he just might lose if that’s what the public and the voters sense.
Tanbark’s assessment was a fair one, if not citing the substance of what was said. Appearance matters and Romney was a creepy, self-righteous bully who could have been crushed in a debate by anyone with a desire to fight back. O was more likeable even playing the character of an undertaker teaching mortuary techniques.
PBGC
How long can they continue to absorb these SOB defaulters before the 99% start picking up the tab for each other’s private retirement, too?
Both of the candidates were tossing around the insane, wretched abomination “Simpson-Bowles” proposal as though it amounted (or amounts) to something worthy of serious consideration, rather than to be summarily consigned to the shitcan of history.
So would you like your austerity by the quart or the gallon?
The best line I heard about how to judge the debate came from someone (I think on Charlie Rose’s panel) who said you have to watch at least part of the debate with the sound off and study the body language. It was clearly about style over substance. However, I think he was exactly right. The people who are the undecided that are going to move one way or another are going to be persuaded by how a candidate says whatever he’s already been saying than by what he says.
What Chris Hedges said. From link at SD’s Lakeside Diner.
My comment at 16 wasn’t aimed at tanbark :) I was pointing at robertarend @ 5.
tanbark is actually one of my heroes on the lefty blogosphere.
In other words, it is, for all practical purposes, a TeeVee show.
They should have the candidates dance with a professional dancer and let faux celebrities judge their performance! More people would watch.
We could call it Dancing With the Sub-pars!
Er, I meant robertrand, not tanbark. tanbark was in my head because of the brilliant mortician comment. Heh.
I just think it’s hilarious, the height of irony really, that the same ‘progressives’ who sit around here griping about the horse race handicapping every day are the ones sitting here handicapping the horse race.
True. The failure of this debate arises because the Commission on Presidential Debates is owned by the Democrats and Republicans, and the debate can only contain items that are agreed upon by both parties. There will be no disruptive or forceful influence from the moderator. Lehrer would not push things.
They ended up with
1. two guys each successfully denying the accusations of the other with no accountability
2. debate questions that were limited to topics which both candidates have already embraced
We might as well have collected sound bites from their previous commercials and speeches, and spliced them together in alternation with Jim Lehrer. It would have been equally insignificant.
What we’ve really ended up with is an American Electorate who are even more misled, more confused, and more polarized than they were at 7PM EST yesterday.
Jim Lehrer was terrible. That’s for sure.
Not me, I hope. Since I’m not voting for either of these jerks, I feel like I can make a more honest assessment. I actually liked O better than R last night. I seem to be in the minority, though.
Damn. That’s catchy.
Maybe they should both have to dance with Jim Lehrer.
Pah! Everybody knows that Jim Lehrer can’t dance.
Didn’t he prove that last night?
Not you at all ysd.
Drat. Now I have to wipe coffee off my computer screen. :-)
Maybe that’s what happened to Jim last night! There was coffee on his teleprompter!
Coffee would kill him, just being in the same room with it.
“Is that the pony that Tbogg and his commenters keep talking about?”
That’s the horse.
The horse! I forgot about Rafalca! Rafalca could be on Dancing With the Sub-pars, too!
Anyone else here agree that we will now be treated to more hippie-punching, “Thanks Ralph” articles? We’ve already had gems written by Rebecca Solnit and Kevin Drum over the last week. Plus the white, male professors over at Lawyers, Guns and Money have been manning the shallow end of the Democratic pool by ramping up their dogwhistle “privilege” accusations at anyone who talks of stepping out (instead of coming right out and accusing such persons of being racists and patriarchs). I’m predicting that the cries will get even more desperate and depressing.
Well, Clint Eastwood certainly is looking like Karnak the Magnificent now.
How did he know an empty chair would show up for the debate?
“My fellow Americans, yesterday, October 3rd, 2012, a day which will live in infamy……..”
Thanks for the link.
Pups, if you haven’t read enough critiques on last nights “America’ Most Depressiong videos“, check this out.
We are sooooo screwed.
“…we will be treated to more hippie-punching?”
A good question. Will Obama and his “braintrust” view last night’s trouncing as evidence that yet another move to the right in in order?
You’d think that by now they would have figured out that trying to co-opt the republican agenda is not a winning strategy, but with this preznint and his people, you just can’t tell.
I like the “talking too fast” part. It always plays well in Mass, but R will lose the state outstandingly anyway, and maybe take Scott Brown with him.
This is the first time I’ve noticed Lehrer is waaaaay past his prime. Maybe in his familiar surroundings, on the News Hour, he doesn’t let it show.
“How did he know an empty chair would show up for the debate?”
Baaaad Cregan. That’s gonna leave a bruise. :o)
Trouncing? I must ask, in earnestness, was the “show” (which I cannot call a “debate”) last night considered a trouncing for Obama?
In my eyes, it was too much of a huge back-and-forth cluster-f4ck to say that either of them “won”. What a mess.
obama was completely honest and transparent. he is not going to lift a finger to improve the employment outlook, and at the first opportunity, probably late november or december, he will begin the gutting of social security — he’s already started on medicare (most likely extend the bush tax cuts in the “deal” as well). in terms of the horse race, no one needs a credible romney threat more than obama. those who think progressives will sit this one out because of obama’s poor showing, don’t understand the obama/democratic strategy, which, from 2009 until today has been “we are not them.” with romney tanking, who cares, no one would vote. with romney a “real threat” liberals will come out in droves to stop the catastrophe which will befall is if romney is elected.
One of the most blatant examples of “running away from your record” that I’ve ever seen. Aside from being thorough evil, amoral and disgusting, on many levels he’s just plain pathetic.