Nothing else needs to be said about the sociopathy of Joe Klein than what Glenn Greenwald describes today. Klein’s justification for drone warfare comes down to “we have to kill their children before they kill our children,” and frankly that’s about as nuancedas our foreign policy debate gets these days.
Greenwald goes into all the reasons why this point of view doesn’t even provide Americans with basic security, which is the ostensible goal. We know enough about blowback to understand why flying robots killing everyone in an area and generating collateral damage does not stop terrorism and hatred as much as it sows it. And there’s the damage of this psychopathy to the national character, as Greenwald demonstrates (though I’m not certain there’s been much degrading over the years; it was ever thus).
But here’s a more subtle way that this kind of “end justify the means” approach to terrorism, which is a vanishingly small threat to the homeland anyway, one that can be counteracted with smart law enforcement as much as bombs. There does exist something called moral authority, and it is possible to lose it.
Prisoners detained without charges. Prisons operating outside the legal system. Limits on free speech and the Internet. Legitimate voters prevented from casting their ballots. Sanctioned kidnappings. Witch hunts and torture.
It’s all part of life, says the Russian government — in the United States.
The Russian Foreign Ministry on Monday issued a 56-page report in Russian and English titled, “On the Human Rights Situation in the United States.”
The report, distributed at hearings held by the International Affairs Committee of Russia’s lower house of parliament, was the first such full examination of the U.S. human rights record issued here since the fall of communism in 1991. In tone, vocabulary and spirit, it was reminiscent of the Cold War-era propaganda counterattacks launched by the Soviet Union on its rival [...]
“Around these [human rights] violations an information vacuum has been created and … as a result we see a distorted picture of all but an exclusive right of the United States to deal with that topic,” Pushkov told the sparse audience of lawmakers, speakers, journalists and a group of political science students invited by the organizers. “On a whole number of issues, I think Russia has a greater moral right to raise questions than our American partners as we don’t have secret prisons, we do not kidnap people, we haven’t had any serious scandals connected with violating international law.”
This comes from a country that recently moved three protesters to a labor camp for the crime of demonstrating against Vladimir Putin. This comes from a country where it’s dangerous to be a journalist if you’re on the wrong side of the state. The report is obviously a propaganda vehicle to deflect attention from the harsh crackdown, often extra-judicial, on dissent.
But the problem is that there’s far too little in the Russian report to criticize. Indeed, over the past decade, the United States has tortured people in off-the-books secret prisons. The United States has detained suspects for years without due process or charges, and with no plans to charge them in the future, warehousing individuals when they cannot secure a conviction because of tainted evidence or detainee abuse. The United States did render suspects off the streets of foreign cities. Indeed the United States does limit its voting in greater ways, particularly with ex-convicts, than anywhere else in the world.
You can argue that some of this has stopped, although the better way to put it is that we leave the dirty work to other countries these days. You cannot argue that this has not damaged US credibility around the world, and given those who want to deflect from their own human rights failings an easy out.
Photo by Doublespeak Media under Creative Commons License





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Да, ето правдa. Болше Мы!
‘…vanishingly small threat to the homeland….’
This may seem like nitpicking and it probably is but do we have any land other than the homeland? Do we have, for example, an ‘away land’ or a land stashed in somebody’s attic or basement?
As to ‘moral authority’, it seems to be the USG, under Bush and under O, is doing its best, and doing it well, to erase the very idea that there is such a thing. What we got is enormous capacity for brute force and the willingness to use it gratuitously.
Thanks George. Thanks Barack.
Back when Joe Klein used to matter in the media as high priest of Democrats must compromise more we had a commenter here called Joe Klein’s Conscious.
I think Joe might have sent a drone after his Jiminy Cricket.
Joe is advocating killing children…but he still has a job just who is Joe Blowing at Time to keep his Job?
moved three protesters to
Should read two protesters
Every year, they compile the statistics. More Americans die from dog bites than from terrorism. Obviously, 2001 was an outlier.
Perhaps this is the goal.
Joe says that the drone strikes killing children are deliberate??? Joe is a washington cocktail weenie regular not just some Lone Gunman Right Wing Nutcase.
Joe is excusing Murder and Genocide tell me joe what is the difference between these kids and the Jewish Kid’s Hitler killed?
Joe should be fired by Time now!
Yeah but the United States does it for freedom and stuff.
Back when Joe was important and people still read Time and Newsweek FDL used to have posts dissecting Joe’s faulty reasoning and lap dog to power attitude on almost a daily basis.
Maybe its time FDL start paying attention to Joe again?
Don’t forget the snark tag Margaret :) All people should be free, treated fair and get to live their lives. Children should not be held accountable for the sins of their fathers. However I am quite ok with violating a Psychopath’s rights if he wants to excuse hurting kids.
I just went over to The Guardian to read Glenn’s piece. The transcript of the exchange that included Klein’s remarks is shocking.
Glenn wrote this:
I’m not so sure that’s accurate. Klein’s mentality comes from the belief that it’s ok to kill thousands preemptively now because a few dozen may or may not be killed in the US by a suicide bomber later. Ironically, Shazad claims his view only came into existence because people like Klein are winning the argument re the use of drones in the Obama administration.
Time/Warner already threw Glen Beck and Lou Dobbs overboard for low ratings and racism. Joe wants to kill Brown Muslim Kids so how is this any different. Maybe Joe has better ratings than Glen and Lou ever did?
Is money/ratings what really matters to Time? Oh wait Hispanic and African American viewers fled Glen Beck’s and Lou Dobb’s show while CNN stayed below Fox News in ratings.
Any reasonable pollster could have told Time/Warner that we outnumber the small number of racist whites out there and we buy more stuff to advertisers love that.
This whole drone business is going to come back to haunt the United States. It is not like the technology is impossible to replicate, and those who want to strike back have innumerable targets abroad. It wouldn’t take much to unload a missle on Davos, for example. This is just insane.
It’s a mindset shared by mainstream Democrats and Reagan Republicans alike. I once recall a conversation with a Reagan Democrat who went all the way over to being a Limbaugh Republican, in which he averred (without batting an eye) that it was better that the whole (rest of the) world be destroyed than that ‘American values’ perish from the earth. This is so close to the prewar German sense of self and culture that it hardly bears mentioning, except as a scary precedent.
I didn’t forget the snark tag, I figured that anybody who doesn’t get the fact that was snark is probably beyond noticing the tag.
True this week. Next week?
No it is not insane. It is politically expedient, as it presents the appearance of “doing something” without killing our young.
When the “terrorist” drones counter attack, as you you predict, the defense industry will have another profitable target. I would point out that 9/11 was a prototype, or trial, for this activity.
It is both politically expedient now, and is creating the Military’s new mission (Thanks for the Promotions), and the MIC’s new market (Thanks for the Money).
What’s not to like?
Incredible to me this post could be written without a mention of Obama. It is Obama’s policy and there is an election only a few weeks away.
that’s quite the whitewash of what the 3 women did, and one of them is free. She rethought using a lawyer who treated the court in a non serious manner from what I understand.
These women went into someone else’s church to do their musical number, violating the rights of the worshippers to peace and I would say disrespecting their place of worship that they considered holy.
Putin wasn’t sitting on the bench either. They have a long history that goes back further than pussy riot- like fucking in public in a group called fucking for forest. They did a little number in some scandinavian catholic church stripping down and simulating oral sex. http://www.fuckforforest.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoj4IfiaNuQ