Peter Orszag’s column today, which I highlighted earlier, says that a deficit deal should include Social Security changes even while admitting they have nothing to do with the deficit. It’s worth pointing out that the Senate leadership is right now making a lot of statements that will be difficult to walk back on this matter, should Orszag’s old boss in the White House go along with his plan.
Harry Reid, for example, said brusquely “We’re not going to mess with Social Security.” Chuck Schumer agreed with him, though his comment included a heavy amount of wiggle room.
“I agree with Leader Reid. Social Security — even when Simpson-Bowles included it in their package, they didn’t add it to deficit reduction, because any changes you make in Social Security that bring in revenue stay in the Social Security system,” Schumer said during a breakfast meeting with reporters. “So I think that while Social Security has to be reformed and saved, the need is less immediate than with Medicare and Medicaid. And I think it is better to treat the two separately.”
“Has to be reformed and saved” is a bit unnerving, considering that the normal course of operations for Social Security is safe for 25 years, under current actuarial estimations.
In addition, the AARP, a group that caused much dismay last year when they appeared to waver on social insurance programs, has definitively warned against any changes, particularly from something like chained CPI:
“On behalf of millions of members nationwide and all Americans age 50 and older,” AARP CEO A. Barry Rand wrote in a letter to lawmakers Thursday, provided to HuffPost, “AARP writes to reiterate our opposition to adopting a chained consumer price index to calculate the Social Security cost of living adjustment for the purpose of reducing the deficit.”
In particular, the organization doesn’t want congressional negotiators to use an alternate measure of inflation for calculating Social Security’s cost of living adjustments, known as COLAs. The alternative measure, called the chained Consumer Price Index, would reduce the amount of COLAs over time. In October, the Social Security Administration announced a 1.7 percent increase in Social Security benefits — which average $1,235 per month for seniors.
“If Congress had already adopted CCPI, the 2013 COLA would be even less, at only 1.4 percent,” Rand wrote (click HERE for a PDF of the letter). “However, adopting a chained consumer price index to calculate Social Security COLAs is not a small benefit change — it will compound benefit reductions dramatically over time, resulting in an annual benefit that is roughly $1,000 (2012 dollars) lower by the time a beneficiary reaches age 85.”
Chained CPI is the way that some elites think they can sneak through a benefit cut without anyone knowing about it. This would also increase taxes, regressively, by changing the cost of living adjustment that moves tax brackets annually.
All of the above-mentioned actors have been less than steadfast on social insurance benefits in the past, in some cases the recent past. Prior experience demands that nobody put their trust in a politician who might want to make a deal. But it doesn’t hurt to point out these quotes, loudly, over and over, to make it that much more difficult to reverse course. You don’t have to believe a politician’s word; you just have to make it painful for them to go back on it.




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“We’re Not Going to Mess With Social Security.”
Of course they are “… going to mess with Social Security”.
So, how do you actually propose to “make it painful for them” when they “go back on it”?
As you pointed out earlier today, for those who have “served” long enough to have the “connections” … the revolving door beckons. A little embarrassment? Small price to “pay” for the political class who are NEVER held to meaningful account.
So, once again, just how, exactly and precisely, DDay, do you imagine that lying politicians can be make to “pay”, can be made to “feel” the “pain”?
Right now would be an exceptionally fine time to put that information out, on the table, so that everyone might see, might understand.
Just so you understand, I agree with you, but have yet to discover ANY effective remedy for deceit on the part of the political class, a remedy that may be effectively, and repeatedly, made actual “use” of.
Of course, perhaps this post of yours, will serve to remind Reid that people ARE paying attention and INTEND to keep paying attention …
Your efforts at informing us, DDay, are much appreciated.
Effective means of holding the political class to actual account would also be appreciated … and those “means” are crucially necessary, especially after this last election, especially now, especially with austerity filling the entire political horizon, “looking forward” …
DW
about 130 million people voted in 2008. OB got 69.5 million.
mccain about 60 million.
This election there were about 10 million fewer voters and OB won with 61 million.
where did everybody go????
no one is saying why.
–
in CA, the vote numbers fell by about 4 million to 9 million from 13 million.
at least here, we could say it had something to do with being irrelevant, but there were so many key ballot issues.
i have no answers.
Look for no outright frontal assaults on SSI. It will be subtle and compromises will be made in smoke filled rooms. Changes will be touted by the likes of Ed Rendell and Bill Clinton on the talk shows as if it were all going to be okay. We just need to trust them….
Couldn’t have said it better myself realib……… Don’t those two old pricks make you wanta puke…..Ed and Bill are part of whats wrong with this country.
Here’s what you do.
Go over the fiscal cliff. Let Bush’s cuts expire entirely. Cut defense.
Have Senate pass tax cuts for those under $250k/yr and restore social spending. Have GOP oppose either in House or filibuster.
Run against the anti tax cut GOP in 2014.
Cost would be two years’ lost social spending as the GOP will lose big in 2014. Social spending could be increased again in 2015, defense cuts shoudl be permanent if not made bigger.
Where is the brave new (lady?) Senator who will say, out loud and repeatedly, “Eliminate the damn cap!” We need some of this new energy expended on this, the simplest and most responsible solution: eliminate the damn ceiling on earnings subject to Social Security/Medicare taxation.
It solves the ‘problem’ in perpetuity. Any party really interested in saving Social Security and Medicare would pass this tomorrow.
I call bullshit. They’ve already messed with Social Security by cutting the payroll tax to “stimulate” the economy. It’s just robbing the pensions of future retirees, pure and simple. In the process the Dems gave cred to the GOP line that a healthy economy requires entitlement funding cuts.
Nice going, Dems.
Durbin is getting a symbolic golden calf delivered to his office by clergy and protestors for not signing onto the letter by Sanders and Reid, rejecting cuts to Social Security:
HERE.
In addition, in Mass. a ballot was passed opposing cuts to the safety net on November 6th. HERE.
That’s a good start.
Citizen peterboy@2:
This is an excellent question and one that I think should be taken seriously by all citizens but particularly by “progressives”. I been up to my neck in electoral politics here in Wisconsin at all levels for over 2 years now and I can tell you that there are many progressive votes and voters who never see the inside of a pollin’ place. Since I been doin’ a lot of real grassroots stuff for the recall and for local and state offices includin’ a bunch for Tammy Baldwin, I am increasingly concerned about those folks who tell me that they have had it with politics because the system is nothin but an increasingly dangerous game of charades. As I canvas and respond to those intelligent and experienced citizens I find it difficult to argue them into action. I would like everyone here on this site to think about their own cynicism and ask themselves whether their own sense of hopelessness and helplessness and anger isn’t exactly what the fascists and money-mongers need to subdue the balance of our brothers and sisters.
Keep the faith and pass the ammunition, and never compromise with fascists!
Irrelevant? Irrelevant? I’ve never understood that excuse. The votes in CA may not be relevant for the presidential race, but there are certainly state and local elections on the same ballot that need the attention of the citizens of CA. Do you suppose these people who didn’t vote because it wasn’t relevant were just planning to stop in, vote for president and leave the rest of the ballot blank? At minimum there had to be a member of the house up for election.
Norske, haven’t seen you for a bit of time.
Have you heard what happened to Southern Dragon?
If you haven’t, just wanted to let you know that he died about the time Sandy hit.
Always good to see you and hear your clear call to conscience and courage.
DW
Not the case, they replaced the cut in FICA taxes with money from the general fund. Social Security is receiving all of its payments and not losing any money.
Reid apparently did not get the memo, because Obama has already put Social Security on the table for Boner and friends.
Not going to mess with SS? Seems like I’ve heard that before.
Yeah, I’ll believe my lyin’ eyes.
People who comment on political blogs are no doubt more likely to vote regardless of their cynicism than the average person who does not hang out on political blogs.
We ought to be looking deeper. Progressive voters didn’t fail to show up at the polls because a bunch of leftier than thou types made snide, cynical remarks on a blog somewhere. They didn’t show up at the polls because the guy they voted for 4 years ago didn’t show up in the oval office to represent them and their other perceived choice was a lot like the last guy they voted out of office.
I work every day in CA with the poor (an ever increasing % of the pop.) and my theory is they are depressed and so beat down they didn’t vote pretty much en masse. Would like to see some research on that but most of the people I work with didn’t care to vote or couldn’t and since we’re not a swing State no one from the DCCC came to drive them to the polls.
Citizen yellowsnapdragon:
“They didn’t show up at the polls because the guy they voted for 4 years ago didn’t show up in the oval office to represent them…”
With all due respect, that is a bunch of ass coverin’ bushwa…while there were millions of progressives like me who were disappointed (but in my case not surprised) those who stayed home and didn’t excercise their francise were subdued by the millions of dollars worth of mind and soul numbin’ political terror spent by the corporate fascists. Money can’t buy votes but it can restrict the vote, demoralize the vote and voters and generally deconstruct democracy from it’s foundation which is, of course the election booth. No Citizen I thinkl you will find that most of the no-shows were white and middle-class hangin’ on to their spot in the life raft by a fingernail.
We’ll just have to hope that this isn’t another Lucy and the Football event the way the Medical Care Reform turned out to be. We shall know soon enough whether Obama wants the gutting of SS to be his legacy legislation. If he does, he will pressure the Senate Dems to do it, and given past experience it is hard to be optimistic that they will resist that pressure.
I don’t know why they don’t just raise the cap, though given that the payroll tax is taking a long holiday, it wouldn’t matter anyway.
Welcome back Citizen Norske. We’ve missed you.
The lobbyist represent the power and policy still in D.C. and they want austerity. O and the Senate are still owned by the 1%.
x2
I’ll believe ONLY what I see *happening,* not what anyone says.
Thanks for the update, however.
The 1%, despite their various hissy fits & temper tantrums over Lord High Muck not being duly “elected” by *those people,* still OWN the Fed Govt hand & foot, plus OWN many state & local Govt’s.
We’re at their “mercy,” so to speak.
Liar liar pants on fire. This is going to get done. Obama has been lusting for this since the day he stepped into office. He telegraphed it in his acceptance speech the other night.
Harry Reid’s purty words is just Rope a Dope strategy until the end of the year when it will get lost in the holiday distraction of people planning their holidays. See NDAA last year.
Too many of these Progressive Senate Newbies vouchsafing the “safety net” makes it an imperative that Obama get it done in the lame duck where he can count on Quisling retirees like Dorgan and Ben Nelson to vote for the cuts
Interesting and possible. Certainly there was almost NO GOTV effort that I could see. Everyone I know voted, but I mostly hang with a middle class (such as it is) crowd of urban professionals.
Speaking for myself, I didn’t vote for anyone for Senator. What a “choice” that was!
However, the ballot initiatives were well worth the effort. Sadly they are written disingenuously & are often hard to decipher in terms of whether you should vote Yes or No. Most citizens are aware that the Ballot Props are written to be deliberately confusing, and I think many fear casting a vote in case they’re actually voting for something that they don’t want.
So I can see poorer folks or those whose reading skills aren’t that great figuring that it just wasn’t worth the trouble or effort to vote. That’s JMHO, of course. That, plus the poor, many of them minorities, probably figured out that Obama is not their friend, and it’s dead-obvious that RMoney wasn’t on their side.
As you well know, there’s been a TON of deportations from CA during the ObamaCo Admin – way more than under GW Bush, I might add. And several that I know of personally were really dubious in terms of why the person was deported… So why should Hispanics (to name just one group) vote for Obama again????
do the math (so to speak)…
Yes. I watched very little of the debates, but I saw that clip where Obama PROMISED to cut Soc Sec & Medicare… and I didn’t have to read his lips to get it.
Soc Sec & Medicare are very much ON. The. Table.
Both Ed Rendell and House Minority Elijah Cummings have made the news show rounds talking about how they are both 70 and continue to work.
Like somehow that is the point. The real reason to maintain the lower ages is to get people to retire and make room in the work force for those looking for jobs.
But hey, just like Nixon to China. SS was a Democratic plan, so it is their’s to kill.
And I can’t wait to seem them cry over at Moo-ve on and PCCC when this happens.
But, alas Schadenfreude is bad karma!
Heyah, who’s all in the house tonight?
Anybody here having to cope with the nasty N.E. weather?
Shall we begin by stating our names and telling a bit about ourselves? Who wants to be first? (what I would probably say if I were facilitating a meeting/consensus group, etc.)
Of course you realize I’m just poking fun at what I feel is a disadvantage of attempting to interact via blogs.
Still, just think what impact an electoral “victory” by conservatives would’ve had on us here at FDL, however.
O stated “the best is yet to come”, ehh? Tell you what – I’ll start with the best that we got right here (and IMO have had since at least late 2010)…so again, who’s all in the house for a while? Speak loudly, now — I can’t hear you (mic CHECK!)
Hear hear. Why is it that I have to pay my full SS nut when my boss, who makes about 3 times more than me, gets to exclude anything above 108k?
Make it a tax equity issue. And get some of those bankster salaries back at the rate of 7.65%. On an income of $1 mil a year that is an extra $75k into the fund.
Hell, you could lower the retirement age if that happened.
They are wealthy and probably have unpaid interns do the real work. I think we all could suffer that work day. :)
Public shame to any Democrat who won’t sign such a pledge. Call them out in a full court press: internet, office sit ins, ads, tweet bombs, whatever you got.
This is a dangerous time between now and the Xmas Holiday. We’ve seen Obama pull this last second crap far too often to shoehorn shitty bills into law.
I would love a million man/woman march on the White House for this. Obama has a blackheart on this issue and he gets what he wants.
DDayen, thanks as usual — I have a few requests for you and Jon, please sir:
1) Please give me your esteemed opinion re: Senator Sanders’ four-point plan re: the upcoming “Grand Beggin’ I mean Bargain” legislation (Jon also, please), and
2) Please give me some ideal of what the schedule in Congress will be during the upcoming e.o.y. lame-duck session — specifically, how hard do you think they will try to pass what sort of legislation, projected deadlines for hearings, etc.? Please email me if you need further clarification re: these questions. Kevin G. or Kit should be able to assist you with this if needed. Standing by…
Sorry, David: you should be able to find Sanders’ specific details via his website.
If the question is Should progressives vote? The answer is YES.
If the question is Why *didn’t* progressives show up to vote? The answer is a lot more complex. Citizens United was huge, I’ll agree with you on that. However…I’m more inclined to believe that progressives didn’t vote because Obama himself acts on behalf of the very corporations who were unleashed by CU rather than because of all the CU money spent directly trying to keep people away from the polls.
Hello?
Sup?
Basically, I’m currently waiting for what I hope will be a helpful reply from David Dayen regarding the above questions/comments. I wish to be polite and respectful, of course, so I’ll give him some more time.
Obama promised to vote no on any FISA bill that contained retoactive immunity for Big Telco.
Harry Reid promised not to bring up the bill.
Harry brought the bill up three times. Obama signed it.
Telco was off the hook (like Dubya, Cheney, Rumsfeld) for spying – data mining – on American Citizens.
Now they data mine every day and it is legal they say.
It is surely unconstitutional.
Harry Reid is a liar. Obama is a liar.
D Dayen apparently is reporting on his twitter feed that his power is out due to a storm (correct?) so David, I will look for your reply sometime tomorrow. I’m sure you already realize that I value your opinion, so I will follow up on this (same with Jon Walker), and I already know that Kevin G. is covering the Bradley Manning hearing. Meanwhile, I’ll look at the national weather site(s) and I hope you’re o.k. out there.
Let’s call it what it is…Obama’s Grand Blunder. Make sure your representatives, Senators, and assorted party activists understand that’s what it will be called once he tries offering up Social Security for his pointless corporate tax cuts. I mean honestly, especially after the whole CRS report fiasco, how is he even putting that nonsense out there?
It’s worse than we thought folks. I’m watching Cenk on the Young Turks right now. Axelrod, you can tell he is lying by how his moustache twitches, denies that Obama has a mandate to ensure preservation of the safety net and the need to surrender, I mean compromise with the Republicans.
Once again Obama bends over and spreads for Boehner. The fix is in. Social Security Cuts, the end of sequestration and preservation of the tax cuts that 60+% of the Americans are ready to pay.
Looks like the Republicans won the Presidency after all
I think Obama is just eager to relive Dubya’s mistake when he got his 2nd term. His presidency was basically over 6 months after re-election for trying to mess with Social Security. Just think how terrible 2008 would have been had the elderly been forced to have those god awful private accounts?
I feel a splitting headache coming on — and I never get headaches. Apparently no time was wasted in “starting” this crap again. Hmm, I wonder why?
WTF is wrong with these people? Didn’t the voters just send them a message that they DO NOT want to have SSI or Medicare F*cked with? If Obama gives in to the GOP extortion crap again were in for four more yrs. of betrayal from day 1 of his 2nd term. I have my vomit bag ready and waiting for him to do just that right out the gate.
“Don’t worry, we’ll give you folks a couple of months to dance around in your post-election party hats. Hell, by Christmas you won’t remember ever hearing about anything called a ‘Grand Bargain’. But in January 2013, out comes the chopping block and Social Security’s going to be on it. So…enjoy your little case of the giddies while you can!”
Obama re-elected …
… and now the sell-out begins.
Mr. Schumer is part of the Wall Street wing of the Democratic Party, which is aligned with the Third Way push to privatize Social Security.
For those interested in more about how they plan to accomplish this, I would recommend reading this piece published in TruthOut today by Professor William Black:
http://truth-out.org/news/item/12622-wall-street-urges-obama-to-commit-the-great-betrayal
There’s also this good column today by Yves Smith on the Grand Betrayal and Obama friend Peter Orszag’s push:
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/11/peter-orszag-of-bank-welfare-queen-citigroup-is-selling-catfood-futures-hard.html
We need to stop calling it “Social Security” and start using its actual name, Old Age, Survivors and Disability Insurance.
That was how it was sold to Americans. That is how Americans have treated it, paying their insurance premiums out of their paychecks docilely for decades.
Imagine if you bought private insurance and, at some point, the insurer said, “Hey, now that you’ve paid in since your first part time job in your teens, we’ve decided to give you less than we said we would when we first made this deal with you thirty or forty years ago.
And, no, you don’t get back any of the premiums you’ve been paying for thirty or forty years, either. We simply spent those on things other than OASDI, in violation of our agreement with you. So, you are going to have to suffer. Hard cheese for you, huh?
Or how about a private insurance company telling you that the retirement annuity that you bought is not going to start paying out to you at age 65 as originally promised, but at age 70 and you can do nothing about it.
You would go ballistic and sue or take some other action, wouldn’t you? And with a private insurance company, you only pay premiums. With goverment, you paid premiums, salaries, operating expenses, fringe benefits–every penny.
Honestly, I just have no idea what it takes to maka Americans less complacent.
Well look on the bright side; Obama and Orszag may gut your social security, but at least he’s promised to ramp up on military spending. See? Obama is “liberal” that even neocons can love. And you voted for him. Suckers.
If anybody needed smoking gun evidence that the DNC are about useless as a pair of tits on a wild boar, Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer continue to deliver. Don’tcha love how the DNC demonstrates what they intended to do all along by couching it lying-assed defensive terms that sound like ultimatums and principled stances on issues only to turn around and hock, pawn, and house-wigger it all at?!?
I do – inspires me to hold my nose and reward for them for it by pulling myself stupid, followed by a three year period where I Schaivo right the fuck out in-between election years. Like any common dumbed-down and distracted Good German. Reid and Schumer look forward (not backward) to putting Social Security and Medicare up for hock — just like they looked forward to “holding the Bush/Cheney regime accountable” and “giving the people a public option” — because the Democrats have devoted the last 40 years perfecting the “science” of euchring themselves at the Republican’s Texas Hold ‘Em tourney via careful timing, coordination, and obvious “tells” if you know how to spot ‘em.
If you walk into a pawn store with some rarity that would retail for $500 and know for damned sure the broker would at least give you $350-$375 for it, the last thing out of your self-defeating ship-sinking gob should be, “I’m only paid $3.50 at the yard sale down the road.” Because then you concede all right to piss and moan, whine and kvetch about being low-balled. Might as well tell the broker in your sing-song voice, “Would you like to bend me over your showcase and bang me like me shit house door in a gale?!? Maybe pluck out one of my eyes, and service the socket – I’ll let you do that, toohoohoo!”