I pretty much don’t buy that fiscal slope talks are “heating up,” but I do know this: the overriding goal of the top levels of the Democratic Party at this point is to ignore their base in service to a deal. I’m not sure it even matters what that deal is, as long as they look more “responsible” than the other side.
Don’t take my word for it, take David Plouffe’s:
“The only way that gets done is for Republicans again to step back and get mercilessly criticized by Grover Norquist and the Right, and it means that Democrats are going to have to do some tough things on spending and entitlements that means that they’ll criticized on by their left,” Plouffe said at his alma mater in conversation with former McCain campaign manager Steve Schmidt.
The senior White House adviser repeated Obama’s opposition to extending the Bush tax cuts on those earning more than $250,000 a year, but expressed openness to a tax reform deal that could potentially lower what the wealthy pay.
“What we also want to do is engage in a process of tax reform that would ultimately produce lower rates, even potentially for the wealthiest,” he said, referring to benefits from corporate tax reform.
Plouffe added that while the White House wants to engage in comprehensive tax reform, they know they must also “carefully” address the “chief drivers of our deficit”: Medicare and Medicaid.
Someone should mention to David Plouffe that “the left” provided much more of the margin of his candidate’s victory in two elections than those chin-scratching independents who he thinks did the job.
At least according to the White House Press Secretary, Social Security is off the table in these discussions. But ignoring the voters who were the majority of those electing you into power most certainly is not:
Durbin said it was not responsible to demand that entitlement reforms be off the table.
“I listened to voices from the left, and many of them say, ‘don’t touch any of the entitlement programs’,” Durbin told MSNBC’s Morning Joe on Tuesday. “I don’t think that’s a responsible approach.”
Somehow, the Democratic majority spent two years putting a health care bill together and they somehow forgot to restrain the growth in health care programs, even though that was the main watchword of the entire policy debate, is that what I’m to believe here? In fact, the Affordable Care Act committed the federal government to $800 billion more spending on Medicaid through 2022, 99% of the total federal-state costs in expansion. I support that as the major driver of coverage expansion in the ACA, and it’s all paid for. But now we’re told it’s completely unsustainable and needs to be dealt with RIGHT NOW, the base be damned.
Fortunately, Republicans aren’t really biting here, regardless of what you’ve heard. They characterized the “Fix the Debt” deal, which is basically Bowles-Simpson – they’ve hired Bowles and Simpson as their spokesman – as “too one-sided” on taxes. This is true even while John Boehner INVITED Erskine Bowles to talk to the House GOP caucus!
I again think gridlock is the best ally of anyone who would rather not see a bad deal on social insurance put together. Clearly Democrats are dying to knife their base. What’s more, gridlock would put Democrats in a better position, particularly on taxes, because of what automatically results after January.





73 Comments

Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About FDL News Desk
Thanks DDay.
Peter DeFazio (D-OR) and Ed Schultz were great last on Ed’s show. The ripped the “Grand Bargain,” limb from limb and DeFazio made your point, let them all expire. Then the GOP can vote for tax cuts for the 98%.
Suggestion — substitute “earned benefits*” every time you hear or read pols talking about SocSec and Medicare as “entitlements.” Yeah, that’s you, Plouffe. And you, Sen. Durbin.
Use “earned benefits” yourself in discussing the fake propaganda term “fiscal cliff*,” which is only an excuse to go after earned benedits. OUR earned benefits. Which are as nothing to the Uberwealthy, but existentially important for most of US.
Entitlements is exactly the correct word since it means a benefit or something someone has paid for or is lawfully a right to receive, but the conservative right –and especially now Corporatists, Repubs and Dems both, are denigrating SocSec and Medicare by using “entititlements” to mean things people receive but don’t deserve or haven’t earned. Something UNearned, something provided for free to undeserving moochers and takers.
Yeah, lookin’ at YOU, Obama!!!
Anyway, “earned benefits.” Try it out on your friends and at other blog sites.
Especially try it out on your elected officials, up to and including the prez.
As in, “Hey, Pol, if you cut our earned benefits in SocSec and Medicare, which we pay for over our working lives, I will never ever vote for your political party ever again. Capiche?”
(Note: Obama will not care; he’s got his reelection. And may well want to end the Dem Party….)
And scrutinize any “news” report using the terms “fiscal cliff**” and “entitlements” in close proximity. It’s pure propaganda.
As Dave Johnson writes, merely using the term “fiscal cliff” is taking sides. Or, at the very least, it means using the term the enemies of the great Democratic social programs of earned benefits want you to use. It’s a scare term, designed to make people stop thinking.
This morning on WNYC, NYC public radio, the local annoucer teased a program segment by saying it would include a segment about Obama trying to prevent the economy from “careening off the fiscal cliff.”
This is a “reporter” doubling down on the propaganda part of the term, and trying to double or quadruple the scare factor by adding the scare verb “careening.” WOW.
Really. Just WOW — public radio, a member in good standing of the Mainstream Corporate Media (MCM). How could it be otherwise when so much of their funding comes from Big Bidness and the Uberwealthy?
*A commenter at Corrente suggested using “earned benefits” instead of “entitlements.” The right loves to destroy the connotations and even meanings of perfectly good words and has done so with entitlements. Even now it takes at least a minimum explanation as to why “earned benefits” fits! So, the right and Corporatist have scored pretty highly in this part of the game.
**If “fiscal cliff” must be used due to its ubiquity in the MCM, at least put it in quotes and then use more rational and realistic wording. I like fiscal slope, but love fiscal curb. Maybe fiscal speed bump?
I’d love a term for “fiscal cliff” which captures that it is a made-up crisis designed specifically to allow Obama to go after SocSec and Medicare.
SUGGESTIONS?
What a surprise in this desire by the dims. Of course, since o was the lote, then when all of the cuts take place, they will hurt less. I’m glad to see that the
have been determined. We know that it can’t be the costs associated with the unconscionable invasions in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the other military actions, as well as the bloated dod budget for building weapons to fight wars that will not be fought in the same way anymore.
Winning…oh, wait…
The Democrats will fold like chairs, go down like $5 whores to deliver their constituency/base to Wall Street. I no longer wonder why the Democrats seem powerless to stop the Republicans every trick yet always find a reason why they cannot enact the agenda they ran on, powerless against Republican obstructionism.
We now know that the Democrats have morphed into the kinder, gentler Republicans and their shin kickers like TBogg run interference for the Democrats as they screw seniors, the disabled, debt peonage students, the unemployed and under water or those unfortunate enough to live between natural resources and drone missiles, so that the warmongers, their perpetual war machine and the Wall Street banksters can remain whole.
Good thing that these matters are never spoken of before and during election campaigns because everyone is afraid that the cooties of the other guy are more important than raising life and death issues.
??
hoping for gridlock to spare cutting the social safety net
??
what kind of bizzaro world do we live in?
time for health care for all
time to constrain the medical-insurance industrial complex
time to root out lap-dog corporate Democrats whose servility to dollars demands that they abandon their sick and poor brethern
health care is a human right – getting a six figure job from an immoral corporation that knowingly witholds medicine from the sick is not
And why shouldn’t they?
The moronic base has proven they’ll vote for someone to the right of GW Bush, as long as there is a D after his name.
I prefer “deferred income,” exactly analogous to “deferred compensation.” Medicare, as well, inasmuch as we all paid into it long working years before we saw any benefits. I assume most of the people on Medicaid paid in over the years, too, but I’m not as familiar with the funding there.
How about a straightforward “Fake Fiscal Crisis aimed at destroying our social financial supports?” It’s long I know, but not to acknowledge the fakeness of it eventually supports the idea that it is a real crisis. The only thing real about it is the talking point.
You really didn’t expect Democrats to care about ordinary peoples did you ?
Anyone who did,is forgetting the last 16yrs of Democrats stomping on ordinary peoples on behalf of the wealthy all the while pointing at the GOP.
I flipped through the cable “news” channels this morning and saw Durbin (as noted above), and Van Hollen (on CNN). Both of them were flogging the “cut entitlements” meme.
Hey Assholes (Yeah, I’m looking at you, Van Hollen, Durbin, the entire crew of suckups over at MSNBC, and others): I’ll try to keep this simple, so put on your thinking caps and try to keep up.
Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are (basically) insurance trust funds, not “entitlements.” The vast majority of working Americans (something you wouldn’t know anything about, obviously, but stay with me) have paid into these funds for essentially all of their working lives.
So much for the theory of Obama coming out as a progressive during his second term. Didn’t take long for that one to bite the dust!
“. . . the overriding goal of the top levels of the Democratic Party at this point is to ignore their base in service to a deal.”
How could they possibly do this? “Ignore their base”?! Ha! This cannot and will not happen as this is precisely one of those moments when the Dem Party base will hold their leaders’ feet to the fire, oh ye of little faith.
“...‘don’t touch any of the entitlement programs’,” Durbin told MSNBC’s Morning Joe on Tuesday. “I don’t think that’s a responsible approach.”
Even as more and more Obama surrogates go on public record supporting these cuts, the “Obama base”, (not to be confused with the historic democratic base) remain in denial, either mired in disbelief or drowning in the KoolAid of necessity.
FDR – July 18, 1940
Members of the Convention:
In the century in which we live, the Democratic Party has received the support of the electorate only when the party, with absolute clarity, has been the champion of progressive and liberal policies and principles of government.
The party has failed consistently when through political trading and chicanery it has fallen into the control of those interests, personal and financial, which think in terms of dollars instead of in terms of human values.
The Republican Party has made its nominations this year at the dictation of those who, we all know, always place money ahead of human progress.
The Obama Administration…[Democratic Convention]…, as appears clear from the events of today, is divided on this fundamental issue. Until the Democratic Party… [through this convention]… makes overwhelmingly clear its stand in favor of social progress and liberalism, and shakes off all the shackles of control fastened upon it by the forces of conservatism, reaction, and appeasement, it will not continue its march of victory.
…[It is without question that certain political influences pledged to reaction in domestic affairs and to appeasement in foreign affairs have been busily engaged behind the scenes in the promotion of discord since this Convention convened.]…
Under these circumstances, I cannot, in all honor, and will not, merely for political expediency, go along with the cheap bargaining and political maneuvering which have brought about party dissension in this convention.
It is best not to straddle ideals.
Effin’ socialist freeloader moocher.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/must-read/franklin-d-roosevelt-letter-declining-1940-democratic-party-nomination
x2
If those who would like to rob the citizenry of SS and M&M can just convince everyone that those porgrams are entitlements, then they can pull off the heist. What is not yours can’t be stolen from you.
Democrats have become “kinder, gentler” Repugnicans. Robespierre would have sent both to the square in tumbrels.
Fiscal flat end of the Earth
There is nothing wrong with SS, other than the size of the trust fund, which is such that our rapacious 1% just cannot control their impulse to steal it.(refusing to pay back the monies ‘borrowed’ from SS is the same as theft)
Incidentally, that is the same problem that Public Schools face, and the NIH, Higher Education, and any system that could conceivably be squeezed for a few dollars to benefit the already useless rich.
If there is anything wrong with the national debt, it is the extent to which it represents, as much as anything, the cost of tax breaks given to those same useless rich.
There was a time when I respected Senator Durbin.
Fiscal cliff?? Hell no MONETARY MOGUL as in something you ski over with nary a notice…Not a cliff not a hill but a mogul. Hell maybe even…Monetary Molehill yes thats the ticket…
Yes, the deficit is from unfunded wars via Bush/Cheney War Machine but it is ALSO from the recession. If you put people back to work (ie, the opposite of austerity) then they will pay taxes and voila! The deficit will lessen. Are these elected officials actually so stupid that they don’t realize this? Or is this merely a great opportunity for them to rip apart the social saftey net?
We need campaign finance reform. We need true education reform (and not to privatize it so our tax dollars go right to a company’s profit line). We need LOTS of bills and laws passed and this “grand bargain” is pretty close to the bottom of the list of what needs to be done.
Charlie Brown bends at the waist intently staring at the pigskin in front of him held in place by Lucy, his “friend?” and neighbor. He strides to the ball picking up speed as he approaches. He pulls back his leg and kicks with all his might at the intended target of his efforts. His toe hits nothing but air lifting his entire body off the ground whereby he then falls flat on his back side. Meanwhile Lucy is laughing hysterically at her “prank.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEqrgDhq9X4
All this arguing and fussing about some future these fools think we have. If the planet heats to 3.6C as now being predicted we have NO friggin future. Why these fools haggle over pennies ROME is burning down around all of us.
All you need know is the people Obama has surrounded himself with from the get go…wall street tools, cold warriors, privacy invaders, rendition expeditors, political hacks, amoral corporatists. He is just a more reticent front for the same anti-American elite.
Notice how Charlie Brown just took it all in? Any Dem that pulls the same shit they are noted for deserve exactly the same treatment Lucy got.
There is no reason to do anything with Social Security. By the time the Trust Fund is exhausted in 2033 and benefits drop to 75% of projected levels, someone will figure out what to do. Better to do nothing now.
What utter bullshit. Obama is getting ready to sell us down the fucking river yet once again.
Remember, we can go over the Fiscal cliff, even dive off of it, as long as we have a well designed fiscal hang glider with a 20:1 ratio. Mr POTUS, get y’er Deltaplane, start shifting your weight, be a skilled pilot and read those rising air masses from thermals, ridge lift, mountain waves and convergence.
Just do not know if you are willing to launch a successful flight, where no one gets hurt, plus you go the distance and land safely.
Since health care is a right, the sustainable growth rate formula for physician fee schedule payment levels should be held. As required by current law, there is to be a reduction in Medicare payment rates for physician services of more than 30 percent at the start of 2013.
That’s current law, no need to change anything.
right plouffe, so should anyone who has a position spin on their backs in parking lots and scream marx/lenin/hitler/stalin/khan till they turn uncharted colors, and consider that as a valid point to begin negotiation?
These guys are, and always have been, corporate toadys.
They already have a final position and are going to have the democrats walk the plank to attract 20 republicans.
Remember potus does not consider himself a Democrat, he is ‘president of all of the united stated and will do anything to ‘prove that’ to the 47% who voted to willard.
I didn’t vote for this, and I’m glad.
The only down side to your “earned benefits” is that you picked a crappy “investment”. HI expenditures have exceeded income annually since 2008, and projected amounts continue doing so through the short-range period until the fund becomes exhausted in 2024.
Too bad the government plan doesn’t include a “guaranteed return”.
social insurance
We pay the premiums and collect when we retire.
At this point, what I want to mention to David Plouffe is much more succinct, a phrase of just two words.
This tears it. Democrats are the enemy. They think the responsible thing to do-always-is to allow the rich, the MIC and corporations to do whatever they want.
Thank jeebus.
No need to put it off-just pull contributions from everyone’s entire income. Done. What’s your suggestion? Let me guess: welsh on the T-Bills in the trust fund but not on those held by the Chinese gov’t or Pete Peterson. Am I right?
Yep, should have put that in derivatives. Or maybe a house to flip. Oh, wait…
I can do this all day.
Special Book Salon up with Amy Goodman’s The Silenced Majority: Stories of Uprisings, Occupations, Resistance, and Hope hosted by Kit O’Connell
One of the problems with eliminating the cap all together is you end up with a massive Trust Fund balance that Congress can borrow from which gets us into debt trouble or which is dead money that can’t be used in the economy, which gets us into recession trouble.
Also, eliminating the cap alone results in the rich getting huge SS checks in retirement. Your benefit is based on what you pay in, so if you’re income is well over the cap, you still only get a benefit based on an income of $110k/yr. Some call SS a social safety net, meant to provide a minimum level of retirement, not a bonanza for the rich to keep their income inequality throughout their elder years.
So it makes sense that there needs to be some level. Maybe target it at 83% of all wages, which is the historical average since SS inception in 1937?
Yes, now we’re up to 3.
All I can say is that I hope no one is surprised. If people have been paying attention, they know the Democratic Party abandoned them long ago…and they knew that a vote for Obama was a vote for entitlement cuts.
Was it ever credible? I suspect an awful lot of the professional proggy cheerleaders are expecting a reward for their efforts. You don’t put in that kind of work for nothing.
Are you really that dumb? Any of those caps and benefits can be changed to rationally accommodate increased inputs. Jeebus! You sound like the cretins and sociopaths who argue against minimum wage increases. Like the increased income wouldn’t add anything to the economy? Like a better economy wouldn’t add jobs?
Are you for real?
I’m with liberalarts @ 44. I’ve been around here enough to know that when you seem completely obtuse you’re playing at it.
So, which is the problem? An underfunded SS trust or an overfunded one? You know, just to be sure I’m not engaging with someone who just likes to argue and shifts their positions to guarantee enduring disagreement.
As for an overfunded trust: raise benefits (great for the economy) and cap the chaining of benefits to contributions. Simples. Don’t tell me it can’t be done after I’ve watched my government pass laws that invalidate elements of the bill of rights and give retroactive immunity for blatantly illegal acts.
I think Lily Tomlin once said, “No matter how cynical you become, it’s never enough to keep up.” I thought nothing would surprise me, but then I saw the David Plouffe video on Ed’s show last night. THREE WEEKS after the election, he’s ready to betray us. And not afraid to say so in public!
Ah, proof that it’s much easier to be hateful than to read.
While true, it doesn’t address the comment that I was responding to:
See the addition of “Done” means that the commenter doesn’t think there needs to be changes to caps and benefits.
You know what else can be changed in addition to caps and benefits, the standard retirement age, and the benefits formula, and going to Chained-CPI, and an increase in payroll taxes. Turns out every aspect of SS can be changed and most have been many times over.
My point exactly.
Both are a problem.
But since you now have shifted your position from lift the cap – Done, to change the cap and benefits, it seems as though you’ve come around.
At least you’re response is nicer than #44.
Forward… into the maws of poverty.
Do you realize how clever it was to frame entitlements, which are exactly that, in every sense of entitled, as a negative? I damn well am entitled. I paid in, I want my pay-out.
More credit to me.
In arguments before the Supreme Court that a contract exists between a person paying into the system and the United States government the Court ruled that no such contract exists, and that there is no contractual right to receive Social Security payments.
But you’ll probably get your pay-out anyway.
Who gave us the 2% PAYROLL TAX CUT for two years in a row? If SS is in financial trouble, why was this done by a DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT AND DEMOCRATIC VICE PRESIDENT AND DEMOCRATIC SENATE.
Corporations and Banksters love this as a way of destroying SS.
Wonder if they will extend the PAYROLL TAX again??????? Seniors and citizens should have been in the streets protesting.
There is a war on our earned benefits by CORPORATIONS AND BANKSTERS, WHO
OWN$$$$ OUR POLITICIANS.
The “little people” do not have a seat at the table.
Obama, Plouffe, Axelrod and Baucus fucked us all over on the Public Option as the Obamabots thought that playing nice would deliver us the goods.
We cannot play nice now and expect for anything but more major dildo action.
Earned benefits. Vested interest. Social insurance. Anything but entitlements. Entitled is what Blankfein, Dimon, Rubin are, and what Clinton and Obama want to be.
David, your reporting on this issue (and others) is the most consistent, enlightening, and real available. Thank you, thank you. Temperature on negotiations may not be going up, but yours certainly is. Keep it up.
BTW, Billmon speaks, albiet on KOS, (in loco parentis). http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/26/1164823/-The-GOP-tax-plan-Leave-no-billionaire-behind
But it was so important to re-elect Obomba because Mitt Romney would do such nasty things to us.
Someone needs to send Durbin a letter with the Subject line : Base Angling to Ignore Democratic Party in the 2014 Election Cycle
I really don’t care if Durbin considers our ideas responsible or not, he works for us at our leisure. As a matter of fact where are the “great democratic party reformers” on a primary challenge to Durbin since he’s up for election this year.
Let’s see how he feels about the “base” when his job relies on their benevolence.
Yes….
The framing of the debate using “entitlements” lets you know right away who’s going to screw the working folks and who is not.
It’s THE giveaway.
But what’s even more sad are the people “rallying around” Obama’s version of “trickle down” economics.
They scream about Reaganomics and trickle down and O is shoving it down their throats and they don’t know the difference.
And all the past few weeks some of the same are talking about how the Republicans live in a fantasy land.
This is Exhibit A of why the Republicans are not on the road to extinction.
The Democrats, especially in DC, do everything they can to keep them relevant, while they say otherwise to the public.
Yes, but that was three weeks ago–now we have to be centrist-y pragmaticalists and not allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good and pay our fair share. The president’s amen corner has a lame, intelligence-insulting mantra for every occasion.
jawbone, I like that idea of using the term “earned benefits” instead of “entitlements”. I will pass that on.
All through the cycle I heard how third party supporters were so darn lazy, unlike those uber hard working going to press the Democratic party for reform folk. I’ve yet to see a list anywhere that tells me how the people who are out to reform the party plan to reform it short of talking it to death or sending it sternly worded opinion pieces.
It isn’t like it’s a secret which people are up for re election in 2014. So why exactly isn’t there any discussion of which people to target for a primary? Or is the game plan to wait until 2014 and then insist that you can’t possibly primary X because then you’ll be giving the GOP an advantage in the general as usual? Primarying is “such hard work”
The reformers may not be the proverbial five people in a room but they don’t strike me as any more effective in their reform efforts.
In other breaking news – Water still wet; Pope still Catholic
(not picking on you DDay, just the people with the Captain Louis Renault complexes who thought we’d all get ponies after the election)
So interesting that those who believe in “lemon socialism,” as in socialize the losses and privatize the profits, are those who are most aghast that people who paid into FICA for SocSec and Medicare all these years actually expect to receive what they were told they would get.
How many trillions were shoved out the back door of the Fed to those fill the coffers of the banksters?
Huh. The temerity of the masses!
With you on that. I must look over the primary field against Durbin and, if he hurdles that obstacle, his general election opponent(s).
someone should ask boy wonder Dave P why is the Fed printing trillions of dollars and givng the money to Wall st Executives; why medicare cannot nego for lower prices; whyare we spending a trillion per year on defnese why is Obama planing to increase defense spending…is the idea of cuts to programs with cuts for the rich the same trickle down BS that Obama drilled Romney about? Dave P is a disgrace along with DICK, Chris Van Asshole and Ed Rendell btw Dave these issues are not just left dems Repub don’t want the cuts bought off pricls
I don’t believe the proggy cheerleaders thought any such thing. I believe at least some of them are entirely cynical hacks who are angling for their rewards as we speak. Bought and paid for.
Call it bullshit?
Love it, except…there’s just so much bullshit around it’s hard to know what’s being talked about…right?
Obama took single payer off the table before the negotiations started, and he bargained away the public option in the very early part of the negotiations. Now he wants to cut Medicare and Medicaid benefits to the poor, the sick, and the elderly because they are the “chief drivers of our deficit.” Fuck him.
The chief drivers of our deficit are the Bush tax cuts, so let them expire the recession induced by misbehavior of the elite, who’ve been promising to trickle down on us for the last four decades. IMHO, it’s time to catheterize them with a return to Eisenhower tax rates.
Also, the government can mint money, print money, and borrow money at negative effective interest rates. Why are we worrying about deficits in the first place?
How many trillions were shoved out the back door of the Fed to those fill the coffers of the banksters?
About four, I think, if you count the free money provided by the Fed. But that was a legitimate entitlement of TBTF. Thank dog we didn’t incur any moral hazard by assisting underwater homeowners.
If Warren Buffet gets his wish and Barry appoints Jamie Dimon to Treasury Sec, we can count much more foaming of the runway for a bankster soft landing.
Well said, but I’d add that spending as much on the military as the next 15 countries combined, and the corollary need for endless war, would be another place to look for some of that horrendous debt ballooning spending.
The only video you need to watch. Puts the “fiscal cliff” debate in perspective.
http://youtu.be/-_N0Cwg5iN4