Republican craziness has stopped a deal from happening on the fiscal slope, and really nothing else. Because here’s Nancy Pelosi yesterday on chained CPI, a benefit cut to Social Security recipients that happens to be regressive and more painful as people age:
Q: Members of your Caucus are organizing against the chained CPI that the President has put on the table in negotiations, is that something you can support in any deal at this point? I mean…
Leader Pelosi. Well, whatever the final arrangement is, we’ll have to have balance. So, we’ll see where that figures. But I’ve said to the Members: “express yourselves.” You know, speak out against, because I’m not thrilled with the President’s proposal, I mean, it is what it is in order to save the day. But that doesn’t mean that we’ll all identify with every aspect of it. So, they go forth with my blessing.
Q: Do you consider that a benefit cut?
Leader Pelosi. No, I don’t. I consider it a strengthening of Social Security. But that’s neither here nor there. There’s no use even discussing that because we don’t even know if we have a plan.
She’s right that we don’t know if there’s a plan. But it’s well worth discussing. Chained CPI is a benefit cut. If it were a technical adjustment that had the effect of raising net Social Security benefits, nobody would support it. In fact, an accurate technical adjustment, which accounted for the cost of living of actual seniors who spend far more a percentage of their budgets on medical treatment, WOULD raise net Social Security benefits, because their cost of living is simply higher than the average person by virtue of being sicker in old age.
And Robert Greenstein can make all the arguments he wants about the “protection of the vulnerable” through some birthday bump-up at age 85 (because the loss of money compounded from 65-85 doesn’t make life more difficult for seniors in the interim), but he and virtually nobody else points out the 50 other programs that rely on an inflation index for a cost of living adjustment or income-based eligibility. These include things like food stamps, Medicaid, the Earned Income Tax Credit, veteran’s benefits Supplemental Security Income, the Child Tax Credit and child nutrition programs. Nobody has come out and said that chained CPI will or will not apply to all of those programs (and they’ve been incredibly vague on whether it would apply to tax brackets, creating a regressive tax increase). But the reason to incorporate chained CPI into government planning is to reduce the federal government’s spending burden in the out years, and so I would imagine they’ll apply it to as many areas as possible. And the federal government doesn’t spend too much on non-tax expenditure social programs on the rich. Virtually all that money flows to the vulnerable; that’s why they qualify. And chained CPI would give them less across all those programs.
Then there’s this consequence:
Finally, the official statistical poverty measure Census uses to calculate the number of people living below the poverty line is adjusted each year for the change in the CPI-U. Shifting to the Chained CPI to update the federal poverty line will only exacerbate the extent to which the FPL has officially defined deprivation down since being adopted in the 1960s. Because the FPL has never been adjusted for the increase in real median incomes since the 1960s, it has fallen from about 50 percent of median income in the 1960s to about 30 percent today. This has distorted our picture of economic hardship, and made it easier, as I noted in a recent paper, for conservatives to argue that child poverty is mostly due to a “decline in marriage” and individual’s failure to get enough education.
Just to move this back to Social Security to conclude, Evan Soltas asks some interesting questions, including this one, where he thinks he’s caught both parties in a bit of hypocrisy: “And yet, the most potent double standard may be how parties define the purpose of the program itself. Is it a publicly run, universal, national retirement-savings program? Or is it a safety net for the elderly and disabled who need it?”
Soltas goes on to say that supporting raising the payroll tax cap and increasing progressivity in payroll taxes suggests that it’s a welfare program, while resisting means-testing suggests that it’s a universal retirement-savings program. Of course, means-testing would have to reach so low to acquire any real savings that it would hit people making $40,000 a year. So I don’t think there’s an inconsistency there. The truth is that you have to see Social Security as a safety net, in a time when the three-legged stool of retirement has completely collapsed. Far too many people rely on Social Security as their only visible means of support. And if that’s the case, you have to protect it from cuts that would have a real impact.
POSTSCRIPT: This food for thought.






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MY is leaving out one important thing. Wall Street wants that Social Security money so they can skim from it.
In other news, Black is White, Greed is Patriotism and Ketchup is a Vegetable.
The Veal Pen is circling the wagons on this one. The Center for Budget and Policy Priorities is warning that CPI-E Not a Good Alternative. The word salad used to justify this would be funny
if you could forget for what purpose it was written.
I don’t trust Obama. I don’t trust Pelosi. The only saving grace for Pelosi is I don’t think she carries much weight with the rest of the democratic legislaturds.
David: I don’t know what I am going to do when you leave. You have become a highlight in my day and that of many others here.
BUt I think the best compliment I can pay you IS that YOU have made a DIFFERENCE.
Bon Voyage.
Nancy Pelosi must have fell down and became CONCUS?
Nancy? clearly does not understand CPI? or does she care? probably not!
The cuts to Social Security benefits under such a recalculation would amount to about $112 billion over ten years.
Let’s put this in perspective. In the offer Obama gave to House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH), he also put $100 billion of Pentagon spending cuts on the table for the same period.
That means that Obama offered to cut a program that doesn’t add a penny to the deficit — Social Security — by more than the single largest drain on discretionary spending, the Pentagon.
http://boldprogressives.org/president-obama-offered-more-cuts-to-social-security-benefits-than-to-the-pentagon/
Nancy veal pen must be running out of INK?
Nancy? better think this thru, the idea of cutting Social Security more than Pentagon spending? does not portray the idea you care about the 47%? we know you never did.
Nancy and Obama are clearly living in 2008?
Boehner can not do any deal?
Nancy ability to do Veal Pen deals is getting very shaky to say the least!
Obama is not running for office again? at the rate he is going he will be a lame duck president for 4 years un-less he deals with reality!
Dems in the House now campaign in districts that are 90% dem or higher due to GOP gerrymandering, which makes them easy targets for primary challenges from the left.
No Dem, campaigning in district that is 90% dem will get re-elected if they cut Social Security.
The House of Representatives no longer has middle ground! ask the blue dogs? that right they no longer exist!
But…but…the Republicans are worse! (Argument commonly made on Daily Kos).
Exactly. And if you think chained CPI eats up your benefit check, wait until big financial institutions eat it up with management fees. The current Social Security system has its flaws, but its overhead is less than 1 percent of benefits paid out.
Earlier this week, I had heard Pelosi express agreement with the chained CPI idea being floated from the White House: ‘I expect to support the President’s proposal.’ Of course she does. She’s the House Minority Leader, and even if every other House Democrat voted against whatever Obama comes up with, I would expect Democratic leadership to support it with votes because of their place in the party organization.
However, “I consider (chained CPI) a strengthening of Social Security,” constitutes substantive agreement, first because Pelosi knows perfectly well, and has stated in the past, that it will diminish benefits, and second because the statement goes beyond formal support for an official party initiative, over into what is at best obfuscation (‘strengthening’ has long been the weasel-word rhetorical substitute for ‘cutting’) and at worst conscious lying.
This is gratuitous support for a bad proposal because, as she points out, “There’s no use even discussing that because we don’t even know if we have a plan.” Given the level of opposition to chained CPI that has been raised at many levels, just having some Democrats support this may not be enough. To get the real Nixon-goes-to-China effect, nominally progressive Democrats’ support may be required. So, here it comes.
Right now our only hope in stopping Obama and Pelosi is the Tea Party (sad) and their unwillingness to work with Obama on anything. We need to start calling Tea Party congress members and tell them not to make a deal.If you live in a district represented by a tea party member ( I do) call them and urge them to continue saying no to Obama and Pelosi. The irony of progressives needing the tea party to protect the safety nets from democrats is not lost here. But with democrats like these we need the tea party to help us.
Per Nancy Altman at HuffPo:
How can Pelosi call stealing $28,000 from the elderly “strengthening Social Security”? That a grand larceny, not a grand bargain.
The problem is politicians are elitist! We in the 98% are not considered relavent any more.
Yup, the “chained CPI” bullshit is the beltway meme right now, alright. And given her dicey financial status, the esteemed Rep. Pelosi really needs to worry about how such a change would affect her benefits over the long term.
I second your reply about how good David has been in letting us understand things with his posts. David, you will truly be missed.
On Nancy, I will give you an idea that many Americans already know about and it does not take a Congresscritter to figure out…Raise the Cap!
Problem solved.
I plan to use that phrase when I call Senators Levin and Stabenow’s offices this afternoon.
“But that’s neither here nor there.”
Only accurate statement she made.
The person who walks up to you on the street, puts a gun to your head and demands all your money has more honesty than the creeps in Congress – both parties.
There will always be those who call the safety net “welfare”. Maybe we should say” ok it’s welfare. Now what?” Fact is our people are citizens of this country. They work here, they pay taxes here and some of them fought in wars for us. If we throw them to the curb, what does that say about the rest of us? There are ties that bind us. Once sever those ties we are no longer one people and one nation. Our nation is more and more tending toward a caste system. Cutting the safety net accelerates that trend. It must stop. In fact we must do more, more for education, employment and any number of things. If that means taxes go up, so be it.
Yep.
And from 1951 – 1964 the top MARGINAL rates on the 1% were at 91%. Romney and the elites NOW pay less than 15% on 100% of their income.
Top Marginal Tax rates 1916 – 2011
Nancy (Save the rich) Pelosi needs to start reading the Bible: Luke 12:48 “…..For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required:…..”
Yes, it is not strengthening at all. It is harmful to the elderly. Do we hate them bc they no longer work? Or shall we revere them for the years they spent raising children, working, paying taxes and supporting this country in so many ways?
It was also an argument made here throughout the election cycle by many of the Very Serious Pragmatists.
I third that thought. David move to Nancy’s district and run for Congress. The race will be wide open in 2014. Eventually you could be Speaker of the House and for houses.
I read the PS from Matt Y..I think he is full of BS. Getting money in the hands of retirees gives them the chance to buy things and that helps the economy..given Matt’s logic would all the members of Congress be required to give up their pensions for the good of the Ecomony? This is the BS that makes my head want to explode..for the good of ecomony? What about for the good of the people Matt? Check back in when you get in your 60s and you are starting to fall apart and some young guy writes a story that you need to suck it up for the good of economy!
“We’ve always been at war with Eastasia.”
~George Orwell
And the consequence to the reduction in tax rates has made us a society of two parts, maybe three given the Great Recession and the permanent underclass and unemployed. The top one percent live in another world from the rest of us and they more and more have power over us. Time to raise the rates on the rich and not merely to the pre Bush era but much higher for those making multimillions every year. Unfortunately that won’t happen with Obama or this congress. This fight may take a generation.
Social Security is NOT a welfare program.
I’ve been paying specific line item Social Security taxes, matched by my employer for 47 years with the promise that I would have a modest, guaranteed income. So has my wife. We have planned our lives with the idea that Social Security and Medicare would be available.
The success of Social Security has been that it is universal, and that everyone pays in, everyone collects.
I noticed you capitalized MARGINAL, but then failed to indicate that the 15% rate attributed to Romney was not his marginal rate, but his EFFECTIVE rate.
Small point, but you may as well compare apples.
Also, none of those 91% federal income taxes from 1951 – 1964 went to pay anyone’s Social Security.
That is part of the framing we are subjected to. We have to resist it. Welfare? Please explain that to me? These people are our fellow citizens, some of whom worked at hard labor or low wages all their lives. Stop with the welfare bullshit. They have to know we do not accept it.
You know what? I don’t care if you paid a cent into it. You are a citizen and you worked here supporting this country. It’s not welfare, it’s thank you.
Over at Kos they have a similar petition drive which is basically asking Obama to stop negotiating and just sit on his hands. I think the Obamabots are starting to wake up and smell the austerity.
I don’t think Obama will care if the bots leave his side at this point in his financial career.
Buffett once said that the twenty people working in his office paid a higher tax rate than he did.
Thanks.
“MY is leaving out one important thing. Wall Street wants that Social Security money so they can skim from it”
Yes, but first Social Security has to be hollowed out and degraded so people drop their attachment to it and give up.
That is how Obama’s “incrementalism” works – the aim is to make things steadily worse so people lose faith and hope in democractic government’s ability to present a strong ally against the forces of capitalist exploitation, and to blur previously clear lines between the parties, creating ideological confusion and paralysis for Democrats (Uh, tell us again, Mr. President… what is it that we Democrats supposed to believe about unions, full employment and social insurance? Seems like we used to know this, but it got all murky on us somehow.) thereby steadily demolishing resistance to Reagan-Thatcher Neoliberalism. And it’s working: Nancy Pelosi is now actually defending cuts to Social Security with the “strengthening” lie. Calling cuts to a government benefits program which people have already paid into “strengthening” the program is Orwellian evil doublespeak. It would be disgustingly cynical even for a Republican, and here is the top House Democrat doing it. She couldn’t do that if the people weren’t deeply confused and demoralized. The people are confused and demoralized about something they have been certain and unified about for over 70 years. Few things were more secure in the people’s affections than Social Security. This is no accident of history but the result of concerted campaigns of lies and malice. Now the campaign to mislead the country and drive its people into the abattoir is shifting into higher gear.
Step two will be creating loopholes for the rich to excuse themselves from participating in social insurance programs. They will be allowed to set up purely individual, private accounts for their contributions, (Super-401Ks/IRAs) reducing Social Security to the status of Welfare. Chronic shortfalls will result – just as planned.
Step three takes place once Social Security is in full collapse because of the preceding measures taken to weaken it financially and to sever the people’s affections and attachment to it. This final step will be the diversion of all contributions into the hands of Wall St.
I think he wants to “negotiate” that way he can say it was all a compromise, as in they made me do it.
Yeah, but read some of the posts at Kos; they are starting to see the light. First they thought he was a Lion on their side, then they thought he was a sheep, and now they are seeing him in his true form as a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
The 401k may be one of the worst things to come along. It let the corps off the hook for pensions and let them keep the profit. How many people do you know made a bunch of money from their 401k? But you know Wall Street made money from it.
Absolutely. It was designed as an insurance program, not a welfare program.
The term “entitlement program” originally meant that a person had to fulfill certain conditions in order to receive benefits. In the case of Social Security, the main condition is 40 quarters of work over one’s career. Somehow, the Frank Luntzes of the world managed to equate “entitlement” with “handout,” which makes Social Security a juicy target for the Ayn Rand crowd.
We have to do a better job framing this issue. Personally I don’t think referring to the SS tax is a winning strategy. It helps, but not a winner.
It’s all an act over there. Markos expressly warned posters not to criticize Obama until after the election. He’s going to let the Kossacks blow off steam for a while. However, once the run-up to the 2014 elections begin in earnest, he’ll crack down on dissent. His blog has become a communications and fund-raising arm for the DNC, and he doesn’t want to get on the wrong side of the party mandarins.
Like, are you saying that having worked fifty years in this country, raising my children here, serving in armed forces and observing all the laws are worth nothing as I get older? So I should eat cat food go without health care,and beg from my children? And I paid taxes, some of which were earmarked for SS. Fuck you with the welfare shit, Mr Koch. And you are on welfare Mr Koch. You don’t pay your fair share of taxes.
Edit
Yes. I suspect he was also referring to his effective tax rate vs. their marginal rate.
Dividing the taxes you paid by your income gives you an effective rate.
Achieving a certain taxable income level gives you a marginal rate.
So if Buffett paid 15% of his income in taxes, he paid 15% effective rate on all income.
If his secretary made $70,701 in taxable income, she falls into the 25% tax bracket. Her marginal rate is 25% (on the last dollar only). Her effective rate is probably 10%. Apples.
They are saying If you weren’t smart enough to become wealthy or be born into wealth you should expect to die in poverty. Smart people went to college and got high earner jobs with 401k’s and saved the max each year and invested wisely and avoided taxes with complex tax shelters and can retire whenever they want. Too bad you worked for 34 years at GM and aren’t getting the pension you thought you were because Unions are corrupt and that’s why GM went bankrupt so just be happy with the crumbs from our table.
You might not care but the Social Security Admin does. Your benefit amount is calculated based on what you paid in.
Let me add my sorrow at hearing that David is leaving the blogging world. He has been a blessing in keeping us informed about what the politicians and other bigwigs are up to. Good luck, David as you move on.
Nancy needs to be primaried by a real democrat. Time and time again she proves herself to be nothing but a democrat in name only. Chained CPI WILL NOT KEEP UP WITH INFLATION NANCY. But since you are wealthy what do you care if medical costs are some of the most inflationary expenses a retiree will face? the only reason nancy’s house passed all those bills when she was speaker was she clearly knew they would never see the light of day in the senate. When was the last time nancy spoke about the problems of the poor? Just another democratic sellout. just because fox rails against her does not make her a vigorous liberal. Clinton was screamed at every day on fox also-at the same time he was signing off on every republican wet dream.
Its all phony kabuki all the time from these political whores
You are right on but the sad thing is that people can’t seem to
see that we are in this shit cuz of some of these same Democrats like Pelosi & Clinton,etc,etc.
That won’t stop many from lining up to work for these creeps once election time rolls around again.
“Its all phony kabuki all the time from these political whores.” Word. Pelosi’s outright lie goes way past the traditional political weaseling.
Barry is inspiring his party to change the adversarial culture of Washington. They’re all liars now.
Is anyone commenting on Obama’s craven use of the Newtown tragedy as cover for an offer to Boehner that sells out his promises to raise taxes over $250,000 and to protect vital social programs? Perhaps it is bad form to point this out? Let’s all talk about gun control (but we can’t do more than talk until the NRA articulates its position) while the financial, political, and media elite sell us down the river. Again. Ironically, we’ll get more toothless gun legislation too. Quick, look over here. No, look over there…
I just got a call from the DCCC asking for money to build their war chest for the 2014 mid-terms. Very bad timing. Oh, boy, did she get an ear full. I tried to be gentle, but….
Not a Democrat anymore.
Congress and the Administration continue to do business that doesn’t need doing and not doing business we need, like a jobs program.
Too bad we can’t force Congressional retirement beni’s be tied to a chained CPI and see how they like it.
The DCCC can kiss my ass. I live in MI-11, which was represented by Thaddeus McCotter before he resigned over forged nominating petitions. McCotter’s departure opened the door to the nomination of Kerry Bentivolio, who never held elected office, ran a business into bankruptcy, and resigned his teaching job amid allegations he bullied students.
You’d think the DCCC would see this district as a gift and help the Democrat, a medical doctor who holds a seat on my hometown’s township board. Think again: the DCCC did little to nothing.
I’m prety sure she, many democrats, and ALL the erpublicans have a version of the bible where Luke 12:48 had been edited out.
If we had more fair tax rates on the filty rich, the filthier richer, and the OMG, you have how many Billion$$$, we could have and maintain a good safety net and decent medical care for all. Other countries do it. Yes, they pay more in taxes, but they get more for it too. We probably waste or lose to fraud a good 20-25 cents on the dollar.
How did I miss that David’s leaving? Where are you going?
David, I join the others in thanking you for your well written, enlightening posts. I hope you are continuing in this field. Best of luck to you.
That calculation has to be based on some unknowable future rate of inflation. We do know what the rate would be next year.
Agreed. I don’t venture over ther much anymore. But lot of the people are cathcing on. Hey, it’s not like you gotta have a telescope to see the Good year Blimp flying over your house.
Or as my mother used to say, (Obama’s behavior) “Is plain as the nose on your face”.
Yeah, not like we don’t have enougn bad news already. Now we’ve lost Paul Revere.
Really? I never read anything much at Kos. I will have to check it out.
the oligarch used to control this country thru the republicans mostly. as the republican party brand was tarnished by those self serving POS the oligarchy realized they needed to rule more thru the democratic leadership as a backstop and also as a wonderful double game which would tarnish the democratic party as the oligarchs policies were inacted by dems.
Thus we receive:
Presidential candidates that come out of nowhere to be our instant saviors only to prove themselves to be phonies-but by then they are already in power and the damage is done.
Not one dem leader is a progressive.
A national media as corrupt as the political system itself
David, I don’t know why you added the “food for thought” postscript, but I hope it wasn’t because you agree with it. Because that was a load of crap.
Oh, it isn’t wrong about the elite hating Social Security, they do. But saying Social Security doesn’t contribute to The Economy is pure bullshit.
You take all the Social Security checks away from everyone next year and watch what happens to The Economy.
This is the real reason the elite hate Social Security. Because they actually like desperate economic times. Recessions and Depressions are just about the biggest contributor to lowering real wages there is in the world today. And those damned Social Security checks mean millions of people will continue to stimulate the economy every month.
Of course, I don’t know whether my reason is the real reason the elite’s don’t like social security or not, but my point is neither does this author. And he loses me when he makes this statement: “Retired people don’t boost the economy.”
Bullshit. Retired people with money to live on creates demand for goods, and DEMAND is what drives the damned economy.
I am a disable Vietnam veteran. Obama suppose to increase what the government spends on the VA. All I can tell is I see VA clinics closing, making me drive further to see a doctor and it is a lot harder to get in to see a doctor. This damn bunch of sorry democratic don’t care about old people or poor people…..
Trumka of the Unions is not unified with the people on opposing the chained CPI. This will create a divide in our society, between subsistence folks and people with jobs. Tragic.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/20/1172383/-AFL-CIO-s-Trumka-chained-CPI-is-a-Social-Security-cut-but-unions-may-not-fight-a-deal
If they do this to the CPI, they are claiming that they will carve out a special CPI to protect disabled and Vets. Don’t worry about this too much, please.
Has anyone noticed that Ed Schulz, Rachel Maddow and others on MSNBC are real quiet about the CPI. Only Larry ODonnell had someone on in the last 2 min of his program to make a statement on CPI and he said it would be a disaster for retirees in the years to come.
You are correct about retired people spending the money they get from SS, but I think the author is saying SS is a “transfer payment”, meaning if the government didn’t take the money from young workers and give it to old people, the young people would spend it.
Nothing is added by transfering it to sombody else.
Why don’t we have a chained cpi for the retirement money those bozo’s in the Senate and House collect when they retire ?
Did you even listen to what you are saying?
If they do the Chained CPI but “…will carve out a special CPI to protect disabled and Vets” isn’t that pretty much an admission that the Chained CPI will in fact harm retirees? Otherwise, why would they have to do a special carve out for the disabled and Vets?
What would you expect from a liar snake like Pelosi? Only illiterates agree with what she said. Crooking and disgusting way to cut SS benefits.It is unbelievable how people swallow all the BS that these corporatism politicians
sell everyday, including president Obama BS.
DEMS=REP=MONEY=CORPORATIONS=SCREW REGULAR PEOPLE NO MATTER HOW.
Exactly right. You are. They are despicable to a “T”. I said that because if I can lower Joediss’s blood pressure a little bit, at least that is one less person they are destroying.
Congress Members get CSRS, FERS, or SS Retirement Cost-of-Living Adjustments.
Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) annuities are adjusted for inflation once each year on the same schedule and by the same percentage as Social Security benefits.
Federal Employees’ Retirement System (FERS) annuities also are adjusted for inflation, but as a cost-control measure, Congress has mandated that FERS annuities will increase by less than the percentage change in the CPI whenever the annual rate of increase in that index exceeds 2.0%.
I caught that, but the economist he had on to explain it was Robert Green-something. From what I understand, he’s some kind of apologist on the chained – CPI, like it’s no big deal.
My aching ass it’s no big deal. I live on SSDI and a small disability pension from my last job. Short of living in a cave, my wife and I have nowhere else to cut expenses. Why do I have internet service? Because I use it to pay my bills, shop for the cheapest prices on virtually everything, I don’t need a newspaper subscription, I use an old all-in-one machine to fax important papers to whomever needs them, and it’s cheaper to bundle TV/phone/internet than buy them separately.
David- thank you for all your posts. They have been excellent. As a person with a degree in poli sci who has read more about politics and economics than 90% of the general population i think your writing has been as good as Mr Baker or Mr Krugman. You will be missed
Heh.
You probably don’t realize it but you’re advocating Chained-CPI in your post.
shop for the cheapest prices
use internet instead of newspaper subscription
bundle services because they’re cheaper
So as prices went up, you found ways around paying the higher prices. If inflation went up 2% you found a way to pay a little less.
Presto – Chained-CPI
Yes, none of the hosts over on that bastion of liberalism, MSNBC, are giving more than a small blip of coverage to the current sellout that is going on regarding SS/taxes/etc. Its now constant gun control/violence blabbering. Just a coincidence I’m sure…
Many parents of my friends are in nursing homes which directly receive their SS checks. I believe though am not certain that Medicaid also contributes. What happens when 85, 90 year olds pensions are cut – are we to expect better nursing homes? Not. My mother was lucky because she was in her home almost until the end and the last few days in the hospital and nursing home, I monitored her care. – there were many older people there who had no advocate. It was not pretty. And if there is no money – and even lower paid employees at the retirement homes and the usual incentive for profits – it is disgraceful to contemplate.
Dont worry. Tbogg, the grand hero at FDL and one of the grandest Obamabots too will say the same thing.
And if that is what he’s saying, he’s dead wrong that the net effect is zero. the fact is top income earners are the ones that pay the most social security taxes, and when if they didn’t, they aren’t nearly as likely to spend as the elderly relying solely on social security are.
Again, you could completely cut Social Security next year (including the withholding) and I guarantee you the economy will take a hit, and not an insignificant one.
Pete Peterson and his billion dollar war against Social Security finally won.
Contrary to every poll ever taken on the subject politicians are gonna cut Social Security benefits so they don’t have to raise more taxes on the wealthy to pay for the deficit.
It is a sad day for America.
The corporate buyout of our politics is complete.
I agree with you SS is not welfare at all..not sure if miss undstand what I was saying..my question was to Matt who seemed to say he agrees that retired people should take a cut. Sorry I was not clear
Nancy Lucrezia Borgia, i have re-christened her…bletch
Lucrezia Borgia Biography – Encyclopedia of World Biography
http://www.notablebiographies.com › Be-Br
Lucrezia Borgia, Duchess of Ferrara, earned a reputation as a political schemer in fifteenth century Italy.
Lucrezia Borgia Biography – Encyclopedia of World Biography
http://www.notablebiographies.com › Be-Br
Lucrezia Borgia, Duchess of Ferrara, earned a reputation as a political schemer in fifteenth century Italy.
we printed more greenbacks for FOREIGN banks
pituey!
uhm,cause hubby owns a vineyard,and she doesnt give a rats ass
David,dude you will be missed big time…..
Thanks for the great work you did on the Mortgage Scam……
Greenstein’s not an economist. He’s a political scientist, and, as far as I can tell is an expert at arithmetic; but a moron when it comes to macroeconomics!
Thank you. Agreed. Still, however it’s purpose is viewed.. it belongs to contributors, not politicians. So Fancy Nancy (the millionairess) should go diddle with some real targets for deduction (military/defense budgets) or new sources of taxation (trading and capital gains). I would love to see some taxation of those giant insurance companies and those four banks holding all that stolen loot. Tax the rich, for sure! She may find it ethically necessary to oppose Obama?
You are likely right and it should make everyone furious with the Democrat leadership betrayal and the traitorous looting of our people’s future. We need to defy the leadership loudly.
x2. In practice, the Democrats are now to the right of even Tea Party Republicans on economic issues, Social Security being the leading one. Think of it in military/geographic terms, with the Democrats analogized to an army. The opposing Republican “army” now stands between the Democrats and their supporting base. The Democrats can receive no help from the right-wing regions they have chosen to march into, because the local populace there are almost universally Republican supporters who view the Democrats as alien intruders. The Democratic “army” cannot long survive under these conditions.