“A truly reckless game.”

A reckless, deliberate, intentional … wreck.

Perhaps, DS, it is time to provide a list of the names and pictures of the reckless wreckers? Is it not time to have the “players” take a bow, or even a fall?

Now, let us “see” … who, specifically, should be on The List?

Why not the President, every member of Congress, Senate and House, certain “big players”, say Peterson, say the Koch brothers, say the “too big” bankers, say the media pundits AND owners …? Who else should be on The Reckless Wreckers List?

When does destruction constitute a “misdemeanor”, a “crime”, even a “high crime”, or something worse?

Thank you, Dan, your posts are just what this time and this place, this world, to be precise, most desperately need, for you share unvarnished truth and place honest blame where it truly lies. Which is most refreshing, valuable, and much appreciated amid the blatant deceit, the tiresome kabuki, and the clever, calculated misdirection.

DW

Time to cut Wall Street’s welfare.
Time to pull out of foreign occupations.
Time to legalize marijuana.

Lots of other stuff to do, but there’s wide support on right and left for those three.

Thanks for reading.

And the kabuki theater is indeed tiresome.

Game of chicken. So who will win? Tax rates, SS, medicare? How far are you willing to go to avoid cuts to SS or to keep the rates low on the rich?

Welcome to politics in the 21st century. If the Rs demand the Bush tax rates and cuts to SSMM, what do you do? What do you do?

Wrong questions.

The real question is, why the hell did Obama pledge to cut Social Security before he was even sworn in?

I’m okay with going off the faux cliff.

Because he was forced to agree to the sequester in the last debt ceiling. We sort of have a gun at our head. Obama has the tax cuts the Rs have the automatic spending cuts. And they will want more. So what do you do?

It is not faux if the US defaults. Depending on how bull headed they are that could be a global impact.

Deadbeat, thy name is Teabbager.

Mint a trillion dollar coin.

Ignore the unconstitutional debt limit.

Blow through the limit without giving it any credence at all.

Obama should tell Geithner to shut up about the debt limit, and they should start acting like it doesn’t exist. Let Boehner take them to court to enforce it.

It’s not kabuki; it’s all French boudoir comedy. Absurd, not terrible funny, and a ridiculous waste of time. Time better spent working on actual, real problems the country faces.

and no one considers reducing the War Department or cutting back on the u.s. export of war materials.

we were once builders and creators; now we’ve become plunder and destroyers.

That’s the real point isn’t it? With both “sides” concerned and consumed with a fabricated crisis they can continue the status quo indefinitely, leaving 90% of us to wither under the catastrophically dysfunctional system that serves the 10%.

We have always been plunderers and destroyers. The country was founded on the genocide and plunder of the native peoples. The stolen land was built up with the stolen labor of Africans in the South and barely paid Euro or East Asian immigrants in the North.

The great American trick is that so few (except of course the victims) noticed these crimes.

And as far as default goes, the US obligations are in US currency. It cannot be forced into default, except as a political act.

Time better spent working on actual, real problems the country faces.

Ya think?

Bingo on all points.

Because he was forced to agree to the sequester in the last debt ceiling. We sort of have a gun at our head.

A gun Obama placed there. A country – like the US – sovereign in it’s own currency can’t technically “go broke”. By signaling during the last debt ceiling negotiations that he wouldn’t use the 14th Amendment option, Obama allowed the hostage taking of the country by the GOP. He should immediately reverse course on that decision which would do 2 things – 1) stabilize the markets with the knowledge that the US will honor its debts regardless of what the GOP crazies do and 2) remove the debt ceiling as leverage in this and any future negotiations with the GOP re the budget. The GOP is powerless to stop him short of impeachment and the Dems have 55 votes in the Senate come Jan 1. The main thing preventing Obama from taking this step IMHO is that he wants to cut entitlements and he’s using the GOP as cover – i.e. “they made me do it, I just didn’t have any choice”.

And yet, treasury bills continue to trade at historic rates, literally sold at negative interest rates due to such high demand. Can we stop pretending that the us has bad credit? is the media ever going to point out the disconnect between the actual RATESof treasury bills and all this fear mongering?

Per HuffPo:

U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said Wednesday that the nation’s statutory debt limit will be reached on December 31 and the Treasury Department will take “certain extraordinary measures” to postpone the date.

In a letter to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), Geithner said that the measures would add about two months — or an additional $200 billion — to the limit under normal circumstances. However, given the tax and spending uncertainty due to the so-called fiscal cliff, Geithner said, he cannot predict how much time the measures will actually allow.

[...]

In fact, the Article 1 Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution gives Congress three powers by which to raise funds to pay expenses it has appropriated:
• To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises … [Clause 1]
• To borrow Money … [Clause 2]
• To coin Money … [Clause 5]

What Geithner is say is: “I refuse to pay the the rest of nation’s bills unless I can do so with borrowed money.” It’s beneath him (and his boss) to mint coins to pay the nations bills. The last time he did this shit, it cost the nation an unnecessary $18.9 billion.

Yep, I’m pretty sure this “cliff” is the equivalent of stepping off the sidewalk.

We’re a sovereign nation and if we can print money to bail out the banks or go to war ad nauseaum then we sure as heck could do it to solve any other financial problems.

If they did that then they’d have to conced that there is positively no reason that old people should have to “substitute” cat food for human food and that would make Wall Street sad.

We outspend the chinese by six times and can’t even get an independant audit of the darned department but heaven forbid that anyone cut the military sacred cow unless it comes out of military retirees hides or the backsides of the active duty men and women who we send off to risk their lives. Wouldn’t want Boeing execs to have a sad.

Article 1 Section 8 Clause 5 give Congress authority mint money, and Congress has (via 31USC5112(k)) delegated that power to the Secretary of the Treasury. All Obama has to do is say “GO,” and the crisis is over. But, then, he couldn’t blame the Grand Betrayal of 2012 on the GOP.

I’m okay with going off the faux cliff.

I am, too.

But the borrowing limit is another thing, and I assume the level by which the Republicans will “force” Obama to accept the cuts to SSMM he so desperately wants to make.

Are any levers available to us? Call who? Say what? By when?

Nope, because they are corporations whose boards of directors and their handpicked CEOs want the Austerity Grand Bargain just so their own taxes are cut.

We could point out that this would all be unnecessary if corporate taxes were at 1950-era levels.

We sort of have a gun at our head.

A gun Obama placed there.

Please don’t think poorly of me, but your observation brought this image to mind.

I guess what I meant is, do we call the White House, Speaker’s office, Reid’s office, etc.? Let’s get the torches and pitchforks, fellow peasants!

I’m pretty sure this is a “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice…”
well you know the rest.

Reminds me of a “Little Moron” joke. (You guys remember those?)

Q. Why did the little moron hit himself in the head with a hammer?
A. Because it felt so good when he stopped.

“Don’t move or the ni**er’s gonna get it.”

I don’t care who you are, THAT’S funny!!!!!
Cleavon Little shoulda got an Oscar. Mel Brooks too for original screenplay.

How do you spell proletariat????

Anybody got the plans for the Russian revolution??? That actually went pretty well for the Russkies.

Why do you prefer the constitution over the coin option? Also, when was last time,they minted a coin to pay bills?

I wish he would reverse course too and either mint the coin or use the constitution. But thus far he has shown no interest in doing so. Maybe, as you say, he is using the crisis for his own purpose. We will soon see. There is no way he can allow the government to default. But someone at Kos suggested he may have to roll up to the edge and make all the cuts he can reasonably make first.

What I’m proposing is “the coin option.” I’m simply citing the legal support for it.

Every year since the founding of the Treasury in 1792, the U.S. has paid a portion of its expenses from the markup (seigniorage) on the minting of coins — last year that amounted to $10 billion or roughly 1% of the deficit.

And snipers , rapists and assassins.

No matter what happens , when the smoke clears, the elite will still be there at the helm.

Thanks,misunderstood.what you said.

We’re a sovereign nation and if we can print money to bail out the banks or go to war ad nauseaum then we sure as heck could do it to solve any other financial problems.

Bingo war ad nauseaum and bailing out the banks are the financial problems that broke this country. Rome in it’s hayday couldn’t afford to fix the potholes that broke the circus wagons wheels, had the biggest baddest military the world had seen to that point in time and foreign bases galore miles and miles from Rome, printing their own money what could go wrong ?

“All the cuts he can reasonably make” or all the cuts he wants to make anyway? My guess is the latter.

Yep.

The rest is just a dance around the climax.

I am reminded of “Blazing Saddles” in the scene where Cleavon Little took himself hostage to fool the crowd into letting him get away.

Yah beat me to it, I hadn’t read that far into the comments yet.

Oh, c’mon! All of a sudden now, we are at the debt ceiling by Monday? When did geithner become aware of this? Did he just get around to looking at the books to discover this? I thought the debt ceiling wasn’t going to be exceeded until March or something? Now, it’s right here in our faces? BULLSHIT! I wonder how much he had to jigger around the books to come up with this nonsense.

This is geithner just trying to create more crisis cover for obama to hide behind while obama … serving his and geithner’s wall street lords … very purposely … and zealously … sells out the American people by cutting benefits … that we all paid into. The pope of hope has now lost any reason at all to deal with the republicans over the tax cuts becoz now they are going to expire and he can go to congress and just extend them for the folks below $250K income. He’s also losing his faux fiscal cliff January 1st deadline that he’s been dangling us over. So, here comes geithner with this newest invented crisis … right here in our faces … right now!

The head pr man of the establishment simply doesn’t want to keep the tax cuts only for the first 250K and maintain his campaign promise …. just like he doesn’t want to maintain his promise not to allow the republicans to hold the debt ceiling hostage. What he wants to do is cut the social safety net. Oh, he wants that soooo bad. He wants to cut the social safety net so bad … he’s so f’ing needy to do it … that it’s getting quite pathetic … not to mention down right evil.

He’s like a spoiled child … spoiled by his demo-zombie followers who can’t make up enough excuses for him … spoiled by the corrupt democratic leaders in congress that are dying to kill people too with benefit cuts and just want the cover of “supporting our president” to do it … a spoiled child that keeps going back to something that they want. Can we go to park now, mommy? Please! Please! Please! Can we cut the safety net that the vulnerable need now more than ever, johnny boehner? Please! Please! Please!

What a terrible person … not just a terrible president, but a horrible human being. He wants to cut the safety net … especially ss … more than anyone in congress does. And he’s worked harder in scheming to do it than anyone else in our government. Why? Becoz he will benefit by it more than anyone else when he goes on his post-presidency tour. He wants the same golden parachute, corporate sponsored post-presidency plan that the big corporate lapdog clinton got. And this from a man who already has over $12M in total wealth and plenty of ability to make plenty more with or without corporate sponsorship. How disgusting! To sell so many out so that he can get into triple digit millions instead of simply tens of millions.

So yeah, here we are again: every time that obama gets the upper hand in these negotiations he “cedes” it becoz he doesn’t want the upper hand. He wants to be “forced” into cutting the safety net so that he can portray himself as a hero that “saved” us, when the fact of the matter is he’s just a lowlife that’s robbing us. F’ him! I hate that scumbag!

Z

If you want to read about the head pr man of the establishment’s ultra-zealous efforts to kill u.s. citizens via cutting the social safety net, read this:

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/12/bill-black-ets-celebrate-the-failure-of-the-july-2011-great-betrayal.html

Z

Oh, wake up!

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/12/bill-black-ets-celebrate-the-failure-of-the-july-2011-great-betrayal.html

Z

Of course, the stock market … which the wall street lords have so much control over now that they can etch-a-sketch in the daily indices graph ‘f u america’ if they wanted … is giving off its “signals” that the !!!!FISCAL CLIFF!!!! better be dealt with to wall street’s satisfaction … aka cut the social safety net of the 99%ers …. or else.

Z

BTW, to me, the perfect companion piece to that article by Bill Black is this by Jane Hamsher from last week.

Also, Bill Black now has a follow article.

As a result, the Treasury Department will soon start using what it calls “extraordinary measures” to prevent government borrowing from exceeding the legal limit. Such measures include suspending the reinvestment of federal workers’ retirement account contributions in short-term government bonds…

That’s extraordinary? Like they’ve never before stolen money from citizen retirement accounts to pay operating expenses?

What a dreary, exhausting dog and pony show this has been (much more so than the presidential election, which was sufficiently horrid in its own right). And it’s evident that Washington enjoys stretching these cockamamie performances to the limit. There’s such cruelty in that: deep, dark, genuine cruelty oozing from the fact that Social Security and Medicare cuts are a foregone conclusion, that cuts have obviously been the goal from the start and there was NEVER going to be any other outcome, yet Washington wants a pathetically uninformed public to go on thinking–right down to the last second–that “discussions” and “negotiations” are taking place. This country is being run by liars, thieves, and corporate-owned scoundrels of the lowest order.

Warning on the debt ceiling on November 6.

This is a right wing take on the constitutionality of by passing congress. Needless to say, they say you cannot and apparently Obama accepts that. This says only congress has the power to borrow money. Don’t know how this affects the coin option.

If Obama could get congress to allow the rates under 250k to remain as they are and extend unemployment insurance, this whole bit of nonsense could be over. But the sequester would also be enacted as well, I think.
Here are some thoughts on the subject.

bluedot (in response to post 48)

Your link leads to nothing.

Maybe geithner did say that, but WOW what a coincidence: the same day that we go over the fiscal cliff, the debt ceiling is reached! You don’t think he doesn’t have any finagle room on that? It just happened to hit the same exact day that we hit the fiscal cliff … making it extra steep?! And didn’t obama say that he would NOT allow the republicans to hold the debt ceiling hostage again? Not that he wasn’t handing them the rope to do it the first time. Remember when he had a lame duck congress with the democrats holding the majority of both legislative branches? Remember when he was asked why he didn’t raise it then instead of waiting for the republicans to take control of the house and he said because he trusted boehner would not play games with it … wink, wink, wink … and that boehner would certainly put the best interests of the country ahead of political games with the debt ceiling … nudge, nudge.

I’m amazed at how contrived and transparent the kabuki is with this, but hey there’s still plenty of idiots that at least pretend to believe in this shit.

Z

bluedot (n response to post 50),

Pull your head out of the donkey’s ass and listen to the words and read about the deeds of obama in posts 43 and 45.

Personally though I don’t think you care much about the facts as they pertain to obama.

Z

It’s quite original of them they’re gonna “borrow” retirement funds until they can get authorization to delay paying back the retirement funds they’ve already used to fund the government. I wouldn’t be feeling very confident about getting my money back if I were a federal worker.

Hey bluedot@49 ,The right-wing take “is’ the Obama take .The 14th is crystal clear that executive power not only has the right ,it has the duty ,to pay creditors .Insofar as default ,that will never happen ,as we are the global reserve currency and can monetize our liabilities .Same with our SS surpluses that you correctly noted have been fleeced by Clinton/Bush /Obama.I hope you aren’t so gullible as to believe that we should accept the Fed giving trillions in bail-out welfare for banksters’ toxic mortgage holdings ,yet assume nothing can replace what constitutes a credit default on our surpluses.

The intelligent ,non-hysterical commenters should keep the focus ,the anger ,and pressure on the SS chain ,which is the start of the end .All the cliffs ,defaults ,public debt crises are artificial constructs ,and regardless of what perils they portend .We all know whatever strength we have is not amenable to multi-tasking resistance ,so keep the focus near our money and lifestyles by thwarting Obama’s sociopathic zeal for hurting the poorest and mosf vulnerable among us.

To be sure, all the repercussions of not solving the fiscal cliff that the obama administration has helped create will be felt by the 99%. That way they can save us by robbing us. Just like they dangle things over the cliff like not extending unemployment benefits … like they did in 2010 and 2011 … so that we’ll be relieved when they rob us of some of our benefits rather than dealing with these issues separate and making the republicans do the politically difficult and voting to deprive people of unemployment benefits. Yes, republicans also are unemployed right now … they’re not all rich.

Remember too that the unemployment benefits were only extended 1 year in the 2010 extension of the bush tax cuts deal while the bush tax cuts were extended for 2 years. And then they had that issue to dangle over the heads of the desperate again in 2011 … again to be resolved with a 1 year extension. Very cruel. But then again, we got a president who gets off on murdering Americans like no other. As long as he doesn’t leave any fingerprints, he’s way cool with it.

Z

…concur with your comments often here at FDL Jon73 … concur with this comment very much

…yes … agree

…yes … concur

You know you are a horses ass.

Hey, it’s better than having your head embedded up the democratic donkey’s ass. All you see is whatever they decide to dump on you.

Z

Well, Obama just got the pry bar he needs to get SS, Medicare, and Medicaid cuts:

We had to do it! Or the world would end!

We had to give trillions to the crooks that caused this mess, and now we’re going to pay for it by slashing programs that had nothing to do with the economic crash and didn’t cause the massive Federal debt:

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3849

Actually that link is incorrect. But you can look it up. It references article one of the constitution which it says gives congress the right to incur debt. I am not a lawyer, so I do not know,the relative merits versus the 14th. But there is a view that that amendment was for civil war pensions and not for all debt. Again, I don’t know the merits. Yes the Obama people think they do not have the power. Clinton is reported to have said he would invoke it and then let them stop him.

I don’t know what you mean about monetizing our debts. I doubt there will be a default. There are probably enough tax receipts to pay debt. But there won’t be enough for everything. Also, both parties are fools but not idiots. This is something of a game of chicken IMO. Obama could get aggressive and use the minting option or the constitution.

Oh, wake up!

Ok then. Instead of insulting me or calling me names tell me what salient facts you would like me to take away from that terse comment. And yes, I often read Bill Black. So?

Did you read the article that I referred to with that comment or do you believe that Bill Black writes the same thing over and over again?

Z

Yes bluedot@63 ,but why is there some game of chicken unless he created this sequestration ruse to impose austerity ? He could have initially ,and now , just done his fucking job,said he would adhere to his Constitutional duty and pay the damn bills,and be a leader .At least Bush/Cheny could lead,even though we were led into terror . Pay the creditors and let them bitch and moan about his audacity .

Monetize means create money to pay debt ,and ,as I noted ,nobody in the world can make an argument as to why the Fed can intervene into the bond market to purchase Treasuries for paying creditors and rigging low rates ,can pay trillions to liquidate banksters’ toxic ‘mortgages ,at mark to myth ,yet cannot keystroke SS surpluses to avert what constitutes the government’s first credit default .You can make an argument that the surpluses are fictional but not without this theft being a credit default .

We obviously have tax shortfalls because the banksters destroyed our revenue base ,then the fed gave the banks over $11 trillion in free money that they in turn lent to the Treasury in the world’s greatest heist .Whatever your connection is between tax receipts to pay debts and possible default ,is somewhere between psychedelic and delusional .Notwithstanding your deficit hysteria ,we are deemed a ”safe haven” awash with trillions of inflows to underwrite our shortfalls and massive nationwide stimuli for infrastructure ,education and a civilized safety net .

You say you understand this is class warfare,but your comments are generally very conservative and belie this reality . Class warfare isn;t a cynical quip to which someone gives a historical reference ,this is a conceptual perspective from which very political utterance is adduced.Obama is a royalist stooge and the DLC would never tolerate any presidential autonomy .This corporatocracy is bent on destroying us from within via indentured servitude .

Now you need to believe my class theory narrative ,but you should believe this concern about tax-receipt shortfalls leading to default is lunacy that spin doctors have instilled in you.Why now ? We’ve been short on tax receipts for decades .Don’t let these Wall St. sharpies shepherd your thinking with this Shock Doctrine ploy to infantilize your mind with fear campaigns .

As the global reserve currency ,the only empire in a unipolar world .and the dollar being a roach motel that no one can exit .there is a better chance of meeting Martians than a sovereign default eventuating .Why default as opposed to hyper-inflation with which our owners’ debt is devalued into a few pesos while our financial holdings are rendered near-worthless ?

A most superb comment, defogger. I hope that your comment may be read and deeply pondered by many.

It is “end-game” class warfare that is being cynically and viciously waged, first “death by spreadsheet”, as David Dayen made crystal clear, and then a “new” feudal tyranny to the very end of time, it is deliberate, heartless and cruel beyond rational human measure … the “vile maxim” … devil take the hindmost… with a “twist” … to complete hell with the planet’s capacity to support human life, with life in general.

All in the “service” and at the insistence of the most small minded, cold hearted, and most childishly fearful among us … the monied “nobility”, and the political class, both of whom contribute nothing, build nothing, and whose only “honest” claim to “fame” is destruction, total, utter, and mindless.

Certain aboriginal peoples who lived in the area around what is now called Ithaca, New York, held that breathing is poetry and, we might well consider, those of us alive today, that life is the highest art form … that being alive is the most wondrous adventure and most sublime of “opportunities” … yet today, those few who hold what they consider to be absolute power and “possess” unimaginable wealth, they have no love nor appreciation of life, they do not treasure it nor hold it sacred, they term it “cheap” and expendable, the lives of others, the lives of the many, even as they, the “rich” and the “powerful”, would “own” the genetic “codes” of life, even as they would, and do, seek the same immortality for themselves that they have been able to vest their criminal “creation”, the corporation, with … an “entity” whose sole and only “function” is to evade personal responsibility and legal accounting.

One wonders if the elite ever feel the earth move under their feet, if they ever look at the night sky and feel the true immensity of universe, and the immeasurable sweep of time?

Their selfish, self-serving behaviors, their embrace of wholesale death and limitless destruction do not suggest any grasp or understanding at all, but merely infantile fears and a blindness to being, to existence, that beggars the imagination and chills the joy of life to the very marrow of the bones …

My appreciation, defogger, to you and to zeabow, for speaking to the deeper truths and to the essential soul of humanity.

DW