Why should anyone be surprised????

This could be ameliorated through the Making Work Pay tax credit or a tax credit softening the impact of this kicking back in.

Doesn’t this show how phony the whole “making the wealthy pay their fair share” focus was? When were the people prepared psychologically for this shock?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_Work_Pay_tax_credit

Obama has been able to rely on style over substance so long he forgot the limits of lying.

Somehow this massive tax increase was supposed to escape the news cycle – not here.

There are two things i have to say about this deal. First. It isn’t done yet. The House has a history of rejecting deals like this and I won’t be surprised if this deal is rejected. Second. If it by chance does pass the House and the President does sign it? I will have my SS tax rate increased as I fall into that category of working stiffs who make less than $110,000. But I also realize that we all have to pitch in to reduce the deficit and fund SS. So I say to all those who are bitching about how the President sold them out? Stop your whining and move on. This is how the government works nowadays and the reality is, that nobody gets the whole pie. We all only get a slice or two.

They didn’t put that forward though. That was a strategic error on the part of this administration.

It won’t just affect middle class Americans. It’s going to affect the working poor too. And it couldn’t come at a worse time since the second part of deal making is going to involve cuts to programs that are already being utilized more than ever and it is coming at a time when wages are essentially stagnant and hours have been cut. Dumb, Dumb, Dumb on the part of this administration.

No, we don’t “all only get a slice or two.”

“CEO pay is now 350X the average worker’s, up from 50X from 1960-1985…”

“…the top 1% of Americans own 42% of the financial wealth in this country. The top 5%, meanwhile, own nearly 70%….”

“…income inequality has gotten so extreme here that the US now ranks 93rd in the world in “income equality.” China’s ahead of us. So is India. So is Iran.”

LINK

And your realistic solution? We all know the facts of life in a capitalistic society and a capitalistic world. But this attitude of winner take all is unrealistic. Short of a very violent revolution of the people taking over and creating a workers paradise? What is your answer. We can all come up with what’s wrong and doesn’t work, but nobody has ever been able to come up with real solutions that will work for all. As for China and India? Their wealthiest are not close comparing in numbers to our wealthiest, but our poorest live better than 90% of their middle class.

Since the payroll tax cut was, in fact, a cut in social security, and all income up to 113k is taxed, therefore, everyones taxes are going up, I have no problem with this. It is, after all our social security money.

If I”ve done the math correctly (I’ve made some really dumb errors recently), 2 percent of 50k is slightly less than $20 a week. Not a big deal. However, I do realize that even losing $5-10 a week is a hardship to those with lower incomes.

…someone making $100,000 would receive about $167 less in their monthly paycheck — or $2,000 per year. A $50,000 income earner would see their paycheck drop by $83 a month — or nearly $1,000 a year if the payroll tax cut expires. And it continues to get smaller, with someone earning $30,000 losing $50 from their monthly paycheck.

While losing $50 a month may seem negligible to some people, it still adds up to $600 a year — a sum many low-income families can hardly afford to lose.

“The people who are going to feel it the most are people making minimum
wage to about $15 an hour, because they’re the ones who are just getting by,” said John Lieberman, a CPA at Perelson Weiner LLP. “Two percent of someone’s income is a lot of money when you’re only making $400 a week.”

Remember that U.S Payroll taxes are regressive.

But but but we HAD to pay for permanent Bush era taxcuts for upper middle class professionals making up to $450,000 SOMEHOW!

In theory, I agree with you except for the hardship of $20 a week. That’s a big deal when you are broke.

The problem with the O plan is that everyone is talking about the taxes going up on the rich only, and the people who most immediately feel the change will not likely be noticed. Same as it always was.

O has completely bought into the expansionary austerity BS.
He probably thinks that hitting the working and middle class
with this 2% haircut will, through greater business confidence or something, lead to growth.

And this just in :

Progressives whining over Obama deal remind me of tweens who complained about getting a white iPhone instead of a black one for Christmas

re: this just in

He’s got such an investment in this stance that there is no going back. Ever. Cannot ignore sunk costs. The more inclined he is to browbeat, the more inclined I am to shake my head in wonder. Takes energy to hold that position in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Amazing…and, imo, pitiable.

I look at it like this, if the payroll tax cut is allowed to continue a few more years, with high unemployment further decreasing social security revenues, sooner or later the PTB will have real ammunition in their “lets cut social security” arsenal. I don’t want to give it to them.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but the local news here has been broadcasting this as a 3k across the board tax increase, which is infuriating, since even if you make 113k, it doesn’t add up to 3k. Of course, there is also no context, i.e., it’s the social security insurance tax rate that is being restored to previous levels, because politicians refuse to tax the rich. We’re poorer so they can be richer.

It’s an even bigger deal when you are broke and they are cutting your hours to get out of paying for stuff like health care benefits. That being said the payroll tax weakened the arguement that Social Security does not contribute to the deficit when the difference from the cut was made up with the general fund. If progressives argue this right it could work to their advantage.

Additionally we should be pressing for wage increases to help those on the bottom. It’s time that they increase and get indexed to inflation so that they aren’t as easy to use as a political football.

I was relieved to learn that the FICA tax cut has been eliminated… there was some real concern among the folks at Social Security Works (& others like it) that it could easily become permanent (ala the Bush tax cuts), and really threaten the viability of Social Security. Also, as cwaltz points out in the comment above mine, the FICA cut did some serious damage to the wall of separation between the SS trust fund and the deficit.

That being said, Obomber & the Democrats’ needless capitulation on capital gains & the estate tax is depressing as hell; and I’d be very surprised if this whole goddamn “fiscal cliff” farce wasn’t mainly constructed in order to soften us all up for the chained CPI SS benefit cut and a higher Medicare eligibility age, when the GOP threatens once again to default on US sovereign debt.

Obama Congress Just Raised Taxes On The Middle Class

There FDL, fixed it for you. Since when in our history does the President control the budget?

Agree that eventually the tax had to go back up, but having a deal where you exempt another 200,000 in annual income, punt on carried interest and let a payroll tax cut expire is not a win.

A better solution, to my mind, for payroll taxes and solvency is to dump the cap.

My solution?

Put education into the FICA tax and then tax all income be it from work or from cap gains or dividends at a steady 10% rate. All business’s based in US and paying US taxes also pay not a matching amount to their employees but also pay a flat 10% into the new Fica. No cut off point so all revenue created in the US is taxed at a flat 10% be it busines income or worker income. The result? Why easily free education thru college for all (if maintain a decent grade point) full retirement at 62 for all and at the least a base Medicare for all. If you want a suplimental or catastrophic health care policy by all means go for it.

What happens? Business no longer has to provide employee health care, the biggest costs of Medical care (the overblown middle man health insurance companies) are gone, older people retire earlier making room for more jobs for younger people and we get an educated population. Any local corporation who suddenly becomes transnational as far as taxes are allowed out but they, like all other foreign companies who do not provide fica income for the US national good, are immediately and permanently hit with a 25% tarrif on all goods sold in the US.

Medicare for all, social security with full retirement at age 62 and a tremendously educated labor force with a big push for homegrown industry to counter and prevent a 25% tariff and we are on our way to a truely GREAT society. Only thing to add is a minimum wage of $15 per hour or so to wipe out poverty and create a huge tax base.

By the way if SS, Medicare and Education are funded thru FICA then you can literally let a lot of the rest of government somewhat wither away like the teaparty wet dream. Maybe a 5% fed tax on income from 0-100k, 10% rate from 100-200k, 15% rate from 200-400k, 20% rate from 400-800k and 25% rate on all income over 800k. Most people would pay a combined FICA abd FED tax rate of a TOTAL of 15% with even the top income people paying only at a 35% rate. The difference is all income is counted as regular income and the first 10% of all income goes to FICA. ANother neat benefit here would be the defense industry would be mainly paid for by wealthy people since majority of Americans wouyld only be throwing 5% into the Federal tax pot beyiond FICA.

Rejuvenated economy, full retirement at 62, medicare for all, free education to all who put effort in thru college, and average full tax rate LOWER for 95% of the population—WHATS NOT TO LIKE??? Maybe we start getting a few progressives to actually start pushing an agenda like this that actually provides SOLUTIONS!!!!

THANK YOU

Always nice to have the fact-free Obama-bots commenting.

Biden screwed Reid, who really was negotiating for the middle class. Harry was ready to go off the cliff, because he understands leverage. Obama tried to give away the 99%’s leverage.

GOP knows it’s always easier to negotiate with the WH and President Cave.

If you have facts to support another narrative, please, by all means, write a diary.

MyFDL has a diary component. Big ideas like you’re composing deserve a bigger stage and some links.

“what’s not to like?”

err. The gigantic component of magical thinking? Somehow, you think you can pay for a functioning state with western european levels of social welfare, whilst taxing the population at rates half those of western europe. I know, we’re retarded and inflexible over here, so sure, given the vast “American clever” bonus you hold, you can surely make it work somehow, but….

No. Seriously. You won’t make these problems “go away” by “wishing them away” which is what you are doing. These “flat tax” and pseudo-”flat tax” ideas are ten-a-penny on the wingnut, libertarian blogs, and they are all the products of the perpetually High School know-all brains of deluded people posting their great Randian diatribes from their bedroom / basement of their parents’ house, where they still live at age >40 years.

Obama tried to give away the 99%’s leverage.

Hey, come on, he didn’t just “try”. He succeeded spectacularly.

bondcliff must be one of those DailyKos types, or a right-winger/Wall-Streeter.

This whole idea that Obama always preaches about …”shared sacrifice“… should rightfully make everyone’s jaw drop open, and then reach for the pitchforks (after first barfing).

We live in an environment where the gap between the wealthy and everybody else has never been greater. Poverty is on the rise in this Country. The Minimum Wage and Social Security are grossly insufficient even as is. And then we have Wall Street exempt from Trillion dollar finanical crimes and fraud, Exxon-Mobil making hundreds of billions-a-year and paying zero Taxes, jobs outsourced, and a dying middle-class.

And in this environment Obama wants to share and split the scarifice? Really?

Are we all fools here?

Why do we just accept this tyrannical logic, and this abuse from this man?

No folks, the sacrifice cannot be “shared“. The average person in this Country has been ripped-off enough. It’s time for the crooks and the Elite to pay.

If we fail to make that the message, then we are doomed to serfdom

> “Obama Congress Just Raised Taxes On The Middle Class. Since when in our history does the President control the budget?”

That may be the “legal” definition, but that’s not the way things really work.

Obama (and his self-picked Neocon/Wall-Street advisors) decide what policy is that they wish to push first, and then they get (arm twist) their Party Leaders to go along with it, and line-up around it. So Democrats who normally would oppose SS cuts, and who would normally want a fairer Tax Code .. are then all pressured through a heirarchical Party Leadership structure to make nice with the President or lose their Chairmanship positions, their Party Funding, face Primary challenges, etc. It is a Top-Down process.

So, yes it does come from Obama…and this is his policy which he wanted that the Senate has now just passed. None of this came from Harry Reid or Pelosi (much less Dennis Kucinich).

And the theatre that goes on between the GOP and the Dems is often superficial (like TV Wrestling). The actual policy language that both sides want always ensure that the Elites get everything and are exempt from Law .. and the working-class/poor are deliberately screwed.

—

Militarism is never cut.
The Bank Monopoly is never audited (or replaced with a truly public system)
Wall Street is never prosecuted, and always financially protected.
War Crimes are never prosecuted.
And the Bankrupt Empire continues…at the expense of the people.

Kbki-what planet you from? A flat 10% of all revenue both income from work and money at work and 10% of all business revenue is the MOST progressive taxation mechanism ever mentioned on FDL. Most true progressives get it that what we want out of government is health care, education and basic work retirement security.Thats what the Fed should focus on not world policemen crap and the protection of corporate interest. Not saying that Medicare for all would be end all be all but rather a solid base for ALL Americans.

Using words like “flat” in taxation talks take the Rovian wordplay and using it for PROGRESSIVE intentions. Its about time that progressives lay out SOLID going forward concepts like this instead of reacting to right wing talking points. Me thinks you protest too much……

Boo-would love to see more conversation of true changes in taxation policy that actually benefit someone besides the top 2%. We have plenty of money (revenue) in this country but it continuely seems to flow to the least productive areas. By the way productive does not always and in fact rarely means to the end that most impacts bottom line. Their is a SOCIAL cost to capital accumulation after all. Maybe we should actually have a counter plan to Repugnut crap and push that agenda.

As a small business owner the idea that I would not hire an additional person because I might have to pay an extra 3 cents out of my net revenue per dollar in is so laughable as to be idiotic as one example of time worn concepts whose demise is richly deserved..

Frankly, I think it’s time corporate America be tasked with paying more for education. They are the ones who profit and benefit the most from an educated work force.

It’s absolutely pitiful how they’ve managed to convince average Americans to bankrupt themselves and risk their retirement to send their progeny to college with no guarantee whatsoever that after the child finishes it’ll be anything other than a debt slave.

If you pegged your taxes at more realistic levels, it would look better. Compare the total tax take you are proposing, to, for instance, Germany. Remember that as a proportion of GDP, Germany’s defense spending is close to an order of magnitude smaller than that of the USA. Germany’s highly efficient economy is so because of the investments it makes in its infrastructure and people. They go way, way beyond your “minimalist” levels of basic services for all. Your “minimalist” approach would see your country sink without trace within 20 years. You cannot have it every way. You must accept the need for higher levels of taxation across the board, and proper provision of public services. Or else you will never compete in global markets. And the isolationist alternative is no longer an alternative at all.

kbki-YOU misinterpet. When we pay into FICA it is not on an after deduction basis it is on a % of total paycheck. What I propose is the same for business. Instead of matching employee share of FICA like they do now I say we no longer make business’s responsible for any matching fund on Fica and they no longer have any responsibility whatsoever on health care (employer provided or not). What they do pay in is the same 10% us wage slaves would pay in on the TOTAL REVENUE of the company going to the newly shaped FICA. Many if not most corps don’t pay diddley in taxes now (GE not paid a penny in in a decade) so what we do is relieve them of FICA share and health insureance BUT they also lose 10% of their total revenue right off the top and surprise 100% of that goes to Social Security, Medicare and the newly added education portion of a revamped FICA program. Yes, semi revolutionary but I think presented right it just might have legs. Those business’s who refuse to pay in are then labeled foreign business interests and all goods they sold in the US would get hit with a 25% Tarriff. In other words business pays their SOCIAL weight in America or are treated as a tariffable commodity interest. Stops all the deduction bullshit as corps need to show true revenue to keep lofty stock prices….This is a reality answer to one of our biggest problems-how to get corps to pay their fair share….

Always nice to have the fact-free Obama-bots commenting.

If you have facts to support another narrative, please, by all means, write a diary.

Remove the snark and you’ve literally not responded at all to my post, just took it as an opening to attack a complete stranger, and someone who is new to these boards. That happened to be my 1st posting in here. Thank you so much for the amazing welcome!

RE your (unsolicited) comments, I happen to agree 100% with the content (but not the tone). In my circle of fellow liberals I am the only one that regularly puts the President’s feet to the fire, and I suffer greatly for it. Am I still a fact-free Obama-bot now?

With a fully funded Social safety net (ie Social security with full retirement at 62, Medicare for all and free education) do we really care if the rest of the federal gov. somewhat withers away—(ie military industrial complex) and if it doesn’t wither that at least the ultra wealthy pay most of that burden?

By the way as always there would be NO cap on Fica contributions in this plan so if a hedge fund manager happened to make 5 billion one year we at least have the satisfaction of knowing that that wealthy person is contributing 500 million to the safety net that year. If Exxon has 100 billion in revenue they are also throwing in 10 billion to the new FICA. The revenue going to quality needs in the US would go up almost geometrically and yet business might not be so dead set against it since they no longer have to match FICA or have any responsibility for Medical coverage for employees equalizing them to any other business in the rest of the world which long ago abandned anything as archaeic as emplyer based health are systems.

I’m not going to screw my kids and grand kids out of their SS for a lousy 4 bucks a day.. Eliminate the Cap, Dammit.. (fat chance).

You might want to discuss what you are saying with people who have come here from China. In many cases, they come here primarily motivated by how they will get a lot more money “on paper” doing whatever they do. But once inside the USA, they don’t have the subsidized housing or subsidized medical care that is the norm over in China.

China is up and coming. We are going down the toilet.

When your theory is that O’Bummer is a fool, you’re the fool.

We all know the facts of life in a capitalistic society and a capitalistic world.

Err … no the fuck we didn’t. And have you been playing Rip Van Winkle, comrade? This violent attitude of winner take all is has been in plain view for thirty years.

Nobody has ever been able to come up with real solutions that will work for all.

Oops, the perfect is the enemy of the good is one dead cliche, comrade.

As for China and India? Their wealthiest are not close comparing in numbers to our wealthiest, but our poorest live better than 90% of their middle class.

Say, isn’t their gini almost identical to ours? So where’s reference for your claim that this debtor nation is wealthier than China?