This seems like a hill the GOP is ready to die on, strangely enough.

I fully expect McCain to issue a red card on Chuck Hagel, the man he promised to appoint to be SecDef had he won the presidency in 2008. Thoroughly delusional and bitter. And don’t even get me started on Ted Cruz’s questions! What a joke.

I predict a “hold.”

Define “makes it through.” He was literally alive at the end of the day, but that is it.

The hearings revealed a man very ill suited for the position to which he has been nominated. He was absolutely no match for anyone who questioned him. He did not appear very bright, very well informed or able to think on his feet, as a Secretary of Defense must do. He did not even do well with questions anyone would have been able to predict would be put to him.

Democrats tried to bail him out when possible, but his shortcomings were all too obvious.

Again, I have to wonder why he was nominated.

McCain threw Hagel’s name out as one possiblity in 2008. I don’t think he ever promised to appoint Hagel, though.

If McCain had named Hagel, I have little doubt that many who are defending Hagel to the death as Obama’s appointee would have attacked him as McCain’s. Such is pathetic state of politics these day.

I hope the Republicans do torpedo him. I don’t think he should be Secretary. I wouldn’t have thought so if McCain appointed him or even if FDR could somehow have appointed him.

Keep in mind, crazy McCain thought Sarah Palin was qualified to be President.

One is forced to wonder what the point is of these spectacles.

Like everything else in the last four years, the point is for Democrats to get praised for doing what Republicans in the 90s would have done while today’s Republicans act like the world is going to end unless the Socialist president is stopped.

from the segments I saw, I agree with Clemons. Hagel deserves another Purple Heart. his amazing ability to strain for ways not to call McCain and Graham and Cruz the bieeyotchez they showed themselves to be while not unloading temper was a sight to behold.

whether he deserves the appt I’ll leave to others

Your arguments are emotional and without any facts. Dont be surprised if Hagel goes through the Senate nomination.
I love MadMax/MadDog McCain phony acting.

I heard Winslow Wheeler talking about the hearings on KPFK. His take was that Hagel felt constrained by the advice of his handlers to say nothing and is not very good at making nothing sound like something. He also thought Hagel was too much the appeaser and too quick to abandon positions he’d previously held, emboldening Republicans to make a fight out of this. Wheeler’s no fan of Hagel (or any of the others whose names were floated) for SoD and had this to say in Foreign Policy:

It is easy for the in-house advocates to co-opt the secretary of defense when he or she comes from an institution like Congress, where rhetoric and appearances trump facts, especially if the words are articulated cleverly or forcefully.

Such superficiality is precisely the profile Senator Chuck Hagel had as a member of the Senate. He was frequently in the news saying something interesting, often against the dogma of the Republican Party or even American politics in general. But, quick, tell yourself something he actually did of consequence in the Senate — legislation or other important actions, not just words. Draw a blank? So did I, and I was watching up close and personal as a Republican Senate staffer for many of Hagel’s twelve years there. Beyond the rhetoric, his record is quite sparse.

At a time when its budget is declining and advocates, backed by generally accepted myths, press hard for their particular hobby horse to be protected while others go begging, the Pentagon needs someone with a demonstrated record as a tough, acutely well informed downsizer or as an accomplished infighter against the powerful bureaucracies that run free under politically oriented secretaries of defense. A talker, not a doer, Senator Hagel, no matter how much I may admire his politics, is not the right person.

My feeling is that since the “right person” is not going to be considered for nomination, it might as well be Hagel. If anyone’s going to be torpedoed, I’d like it to be Brennan.

Nobody will be surprised-hey, it’s just a political appointment and the fix is already in, right? *wink-wink, nudge-nudge*

Read the front-paged post on Hagel’s take on his Vietnam service for why maybe there is a non-emotional basis for opposing his appointment. I also disagree about your assertion regarding nixclin’s point about ‘murkans flip-flopping support/opposition for politician based on what party they’re associated with on any given day. That is a FACT. And Hagel is the perfect example of it.

“One is forced to wonder what the point is of these spectacles.”

Most will consider these “spectacles” to be titanic battles between the relative good (or the absolute good, in extreme cases) and the greater evil. The genius of such spectacles making use of that good versus evil context is that the people supply the imagination, and, since there are only two “sides” “permitted” in the purview of current political culture, “good and evil” depend, entirely, upon the (learned and embraced) “perspective” of the viewer.

The measure of “successful” political kabuki being that very universality.

Some will see it for what it is … they won’t be sucked into the fracas, and will “enjoy” it (or not) as pure, unadulterated bull shit, fictitious nonsense.

A few, like yourself, Dan, will wonder how this stuff still goes on, how it is that the people do not say, “Enough of this unmitigated crap! We, human beings, have real and genuine issues to come to grips with, we have need to end war, to end destruction of the environment, to end the criminal fraud which is capitalism.”

Yet, all those (few) who perceive these truths well know that what RachelX terms the “ideological facade”, will keep any meaningful discussion, which might open people’s eyes, ears, minds, and hearts to the deeper truth of things, will “kick in” and the defenders of the “faith” will rush in to create confusion sufficient to keep the meaningless, cowardly spectacles the sole talk of the town, at least in the pestilential swamp-town known as Washington DC, and thereby, ALL of the media and talking heads will see to it that the circus of the moment will absorb the attentions, if not the affections, of most of “the people”.

One would almost think it deliberate and intentional …

;~DW

Thanks for the info and some interesting commentary. Speaking strictly for myself, I’m so cynical that I can barely see the point in even paying attention to this bullshit Kabuki Show. Of course, in the end, that’s part of the POINT of the Kubuki Show: obfuscate and baffle ‘em with bullshit and craptastic nonsense.

I saw Walnuts McCain’s skeevy mug on the tv at the gym and figured that attention-whore was making the very MOST of his “chance” to get his conniving mug in front of the cameras… all to little effect in terms of doing any remotely *rational* or *helpful* in terms of running what’s laughingly called the US Govt.

Is Chuck Hegel a “good choice” for this position? IMO, that’a big fat NO, but why do I get the very strong feeling that ALL of this nonsense is a big fat set-up from beginning to end? I’m just sickened by the vast waste of my tax dollars on these conniving greedy shitheads.

What a waste. Will Hegel – who is almost sure to be *annointed* – do a “good jawb”??? WTF does that even MEAN anymore? I mean, seriously? Isn’t Dick Cheney & his minions at places like Blackwater & Xe basically telling the Pentagon what to do and how much to PAY them to do it?? Not kidding. What a joke. We are fucked. I loathe these shitheads.

heh… I see we’re basically on the same page… and pretty much at the same time, no less.

Amen!

The purpose? To continue to move conventional thinking rightward, in ever-more rigidly militaristic fashion, with the Republicans acting as dog-and-pony show drivers and the Dems as much more sober dogs and ponies. When it’s a GD REPUBLICAN the Repubs are roasting/Dems toasting, it’s fair to assume we’re pretty well upgefuckt.

Well said. Today, it doesn’t matter how good an athlete you are, just what jersey you wear.

I though he was a “fascist” president? NO, no, I beg your pardon, it was comunist dictator. Yeah, that’s it.

It’s no wonder so many people are confused./s

I don;t think I have ever seen anybody so transparent as McCain in his bitterness and hatred for all things Obama. And McCain v.2000 seemed like a guy worthy to be president.

Whoever said “time heals all wounds” obviously hasn’t met John McCain.

Here’s a wink-wink, nudge-nudge righ back at you. It’s all theatre although, I think McCain is genuinely a asshole. Everybody else though was just following the script. Although, my senator Ted Cruz, seemed to have lost his copy. Perry, Cornyn, and now Cruz, I don’t blame everyone for wanting us to seceede,.

I know. It’s like: MOVE ON, McCain. It’s ovah!

I guess recently McCain & RMoney had lunch, and Wonkette had a column “guessing” what their conversation was. Most of ‘em said that RMoney laughed and pointed at Walnuts and said you LOST by MORE than me to that schwartze…

The twisted bitterness of McCain is something to behold. Useless worthless piece of shit. Usta have some good points but now is a very loathsome and despicable conniving idiot.

“One is forced to wonder what the point is of these spectacles.”

They are for the cameras, of course. Another crap form of War Games in which the parts have been assigned by the Puppeteers, the results foretold. The participant’s bases are soothed, fears vanquished.

Clarence Thomas’s confirmation hearings were the last ones of any consequence, no?

Clarence Thomas’s confirmation hearings were the last ones of any consequence, no?

Were Robert Bork’s hearings before or after Thomas?? Too lazy to look it up, but I feel like Bork’s came after Thomas. If so, then I’d say the Bork hearings were the last of any real consequence.

The rest has been Kabuki Show. Remember Lani Guinier???

Bork was nominated by St Ronnie of Ray-gunz to basically replace Burger. Anthony Kennedy wound up when Bork got rejected

Thomas was nominated by Bush I to replace Thurgood Marshall

With this, you just summed up the whole thing. In this context, I don’t think the hearing or surrounding kabuki is even newsworthy. It’s just bullshit.

But it’s useful bullshit. This way, liberal Dems will come to support a very Right-Wing Republican. So I’m sure McNasty will remain on the White House Christmas card list. This shit works every time.

Missing from the discussion is the fact that Hagel with be a competent defense secretary who will faithfully implement policy. In other words, if he’s told to invade Syria or attack Iran, he will gladly comply. He will continue to fan the flames of war in Africa and anywhere else there are profits to be had. Oh, the China “pivot” as well, as that’s the new Cold War they need to maintain their obscene budget.

Absolutely agree, Emocrat.

Chuck Hagel will be a very good little Profitable Perpetual War Secretary.

We ought to dispense with the “Defense” nonsense and respect General Smedley Butler’s term for the whole “racket” … however loud the defensive objections and outraged howls might be.

DW

Good memory; all I could do to measure time was picture where I was living at the time of each, lol. But Bork: 1987, Thomas: 1991 (curse his name).

But at least as SoS Kerry won’t okay the XL Pipeline./s

You are correct, madam!

But both the Bork & Thomas hearings were among the last that had any true meaning, albeit one could argue about the “meaningfulness” of the Thomas hearings, since – despite volumes & reams of evidence pointing to what a useless sot he is, plus serial sexual harrassment issues – he still got the nod. Talk about worthless! And that wife of his! Egad.

At least Bork didn’t get the nod, but it’s cold comfort.

LOL! IIIRC his wife called Anita Hill and demanded she apologize to Uncle Clarence (laughing so hard I can scarcely type)

Anyone thinking ‘Long Dong Silver’ should stay after class…

Be careful for what you wish. Hagel is almost certainly better than any alternative that Obama would be willing to offer, especially if Hagel is rejected for his mild criticisms of Israel and his completely sensible criticisms of the Iraq war. The real reason for Republican opposition to Hagel, though, is that Hagel has made comments about the need to reduce military spending. The whores in Congress are very protective of that corporate welfare gravy train.

Is Hagel my ideal candidate? No. But I’m practical enough to accept him as a step in the right direction–and that would be a change of course for this abysmal administration.

It may be an issue irrelevant to Hagel’s nomination, but the facts are that Hagel was right about the surge. It did not work. All it accomplished was a surge in deaths.

When violence finally did subside in Iraq nearly a year after the surge, it was for completely unrelated reasons. The Sunni Awakening began months before the surge. Another reason for the drop in violence is that the ethnic cleansing of Baghdad had been completed. (The former Sunni majority had been reduced to a small minority largely confined to the SW corner of the city.) Finally, the Sadr Army called a unilateral ceasefire in southern Iraq after it achieved its goal of its candidates winning many local elections.

As I don’t control Obama, I will continue to oppose whatever slime he oozes at us. Your post buys into the frame they force on us; if the “crazy right-wingers” oppose it, it must be good. Under this sort of thinking, Obama could nominate Hermann Goering and as long as the R’s attacked him, All Good Democrats would rush to his defense.

Can you reasonably assert that Hagel is “a step in the right direction” over Gates, much less over a non-1%er, non-warhawk Democrat? (I’m sure *some* must exist, somewhere in Washington.) No, he’s said a few things which give the more rabid R’s an excuse to attack Obama by proxy, which are now being used to defend Obama, essentially. Sorry, not interested.

it wasn’t for nothing. Anyone paying attention is now aware of the fifth column Israeli lobby. Michael Cohen summed this up well, also great was Peter Bienhart.

Chuck Hagel’s Senate hearing: a discredit to all concerned

The hearing was, for lack of a better word, an embarrassment for all concerned – Republicans, Democrats and the nominee himself. Rather than a much-needed conversation about coming cuts to the US military budget or the drawdown from Afghanistan and the so-called pivot to Asia, the nation was treated to a risible array of hyperbolic, ill-informed, gotcha questions and expressions of narrow parochial concerns that had almost nothing to do with the challenges facing the next secretary of defense.
…
There were basically three categories of questions asked of Hagel:

• “Is Israel a great country, or is it the greatest? And if it’s the former, can you explain your lack of support for America’s most important ally?”

• “Why don’t you think Iran is crazy, unbalanced and a military competitor of the United States, as I do?”

• “Let me tell you more about the vital national security rule played by the weapons system or military base located in my home state.”

….The day reached its point of high comedy when Senator Lindsey Graham began interrogating Hagel on whether he believes – as he allegedly said several years ago – that the so-called “Jewish lobby” causes US senators to occasionally do dumb things that harm US foreign policy. Hagel hemmed and hawed on the question when, in an ideal world, he should have said, “Yes, and this hearing is example A.”
…
At one point, new Texas Senator Ted Cruz tried to link Hagel to a speech given by Chas Freeman, a former US diplomat who has been publicly critical of American support for the Jewish state, and in particular, the domestic lobbyists that defend Israel….

This is quite frankly modern-day McCarthyism: guilt by association with those who hold differing views. It was the low point of the day in which the depths of practically every valley of squalid foreign policy discourse was plumbed. That a hearing on the fitness of Chuck Hagel to be secretary of defense was dominated by a discussion of a country that is not even a military ally of the United States – and which, in the just the last three months, has take actions on settlement construction that run precisely counter to US policy – offered compelling evidence of the disproportionate and unhealthy role that Israel plays in US foreign policy debates.

McCain’s issues were about salving his ego and trying to coerce Hagel into patriotic orthodoxy about how great was the surge. Nothing at all to do with our Defense or Security or the future. He is stuck in the past and it’s all about him.
Kirsten Gillibrand, her concern was that regardless of the austerity screws put to Americans, the largess must be kept flowing to Israel. She is unable to separate US interests from Israel, calling Iran an existential threat to the US.

Regardless what any of us think about Hagel’s fitness for the post, the pants were ripped off the senate so we can size them up. Alon Pinkas said this performance, the posturing by Lindsey Graham was about garnering support for his upcoming election, and the genuflection showed his weakness.

Emotional? Not at all. Lacking facts? Look at the videos. He was lousy.

But, no, I won’t be the least bit surprised if he is confirmed. The consensus among pundits is that (a) his performance yesterday was poor; but (b) his confirmation is a foregone conclusion.

His confirmation will not be because he deserves the spot or because he performed brilliantly yesterday.

It won’t even be because Senate Democrats think he’s a great candidate. They don’t.

He will be confirmed because Senate Democrats will vote for what Obama wants and Senate Republicans don’t want to lose chips on this battle.

Part of the Iraqi surge consisted of paying Iraqi thugs in a number of locations to keep a lid on violence. For all I know, we may still be paying them.

I don’t think anyone learned anything new about McCain or Graham.

Why in hell should I be careful what I wish for?

Hagel is going to get nominated no matter why I wish for.

Why in hell can’t I wish for someone superior to Hagel? He’s mediocrity in a suit.

From the hearings, I can only assume that Obama wants an inffective and relatively lame Secretary of Defense.

P.S. Where were the facts in your post?

… so it would seem

Some of those loud GOP whiners yesterday will vote for Hagel, you just watch.

Why in hell can’t I wish for someone superior to Hagel? He’s mediocrity in a suit.

A realist foreign policy, which is not liberal interventionist, and also in contention with henry kissinger’s: that soldiers are dumb, and to be used as cannon fodder.
His experience is being used as that fodder, and he wants to get rid of the waste fraud and abuse.

Hagel’s performance at the confirmation hearing doesn’t tell us what kind of SoD he’ll be. His perpective is unlike anyone we’ve ever had. I think Ike was even a west point grad, wan’t he? he was never a grunt as far as I know.

Whose perspective could be better,especially for a military made up of PTSD vets?

Do you think you made your mind up about him long before this hearing?

You are making assumptions about me that are not true. My reasons for supporting Hagel’s nomination have nothing to do with Republican opposition. Read my post more carefully. I support him because he (1) is as good as you can expect from Obama, and (2) he wants to reduce military spending.

That is the step in the right direction: reducing the bloated military budget. That he has criticized reflexive US support for the horrible Israeli government, has criticized the Iraq war as a huge blunder and is skeptical of alarmist claims against Iran are all pluses. Protest all you want, but the perfect is the enemy of the good.

That was a component of the Sunni Awakening. The Awakening started before they received arms and funding from the US government, but the bribes did work to buy goodwill and assist their demolition of the so-called Al-Qaida in Iraq. That group was actually named the Islamic State of Iraq, and it was hardcore Islamic fundamentalists who were extremely violent and mostly from other Muslim countries.

You are right that your wishes have no bearing on the outcome. My point is that if you were able to get your wish to see Hagel’s nomination rejected, you would have an even worse result after that. As for wishing for someone better than Hagel, well that is just silly unless you first wish for a better president. Given the reality of President Obama, be happy with Hagel because it could be much worse.

Heh. Stephen Walt says much the same thing.

I want to thank the Emergency Committee for Israel, Sheldon Adelson, and the Senate Armed Service Committee for providing such a compelling vindication of our views. As Rosie Gray amd Andrew Kaczynski of Buzzfeed noted, at yesterday’s hearing on Chuck Hagel Israel was mentioned 166 times, and Iran (a problem closely linked to Israel) 144 times. Afghanistan was mentioned only 20 times, and the problem of suicides of U.S. troops only twice. Glad to see that those Senators have their priorities straight. No wonder Mark Twain referred to Congress as “the smallest minds and the selfishest souls and the cowardliest hearts that God makes.”

That’s a great picture of him in the fishbowl. :)