While the issue of PTSD invariably focuses on individuals who have developed the condition from having been subjected to extreme combat situations, I would strongly assert that PTSD is endemic in the population, even among those who were never in the military. Accordingly, the discussion about the dearth of treatment options needs to be widened substantially.

To me, this is somewhat analogous to the whole anti-abortion/fetus-love crowd. Team USA goes nutty over supporting the rights of unborn fetuses over everything & anything else, including the health of the mother. Yet once the kid is born: yer on yer own! Pull yerself up by yer bootstraps ya lazy slacking baby!!

With the Military Services, it’s all about “Support the Troops” while waving pom-poms, but really? What support do they get? I suppose perhaps they are better equipped (it appears; unsure) than when the troops first got sent to the Iraq (where we were told that they’d be greated with rose petals), but once the Vets come back: yer on yer own, ya lazy slacking EX-soldier/navy/marine/whatever.

It’s only surprising that there’s not more such incidents amongst returned military from these combat situations. I have little expectation that the 1% is interested in spending a dime on any sort of real rehab. What’s one more dead military personnel to the 1%?? Just one less serf to be eligible for benefits, frankly.

Sound harsh? I think that’s where we’re at.

yet another perfect example of our distorted values and world view.

We are supposed to admire all that killin’ done over there, but be shocked that he was killed in such a manner here…?

Well stated. Growing up in poverty in this country, whether you’re in an urban or a rural area, is a great recipe for acquiring PTSD. So is being a woman, or (perceived to be) LGBT, or…

It seems puzzling why after a decade of war in Iraq and Afghanistan suicide rates for veterans under age 40 are much lower than non-veterans?

It would be nice if the suicide stats were for only vets of current wars. Including vets from WWII, Korea, and interwar peaceful years may not help to make the situation clearer.

11/2008

The V.A. says the suicide rate among male veterans it serves under the age of 29 hit an all-time high in 2006. Those in that age group are more than twice as likely to commit suicide as people in the general population.

VA study 2012

In each of the eight years from 2000 to 2007, suicide was more common among those who were treated by VHA than in the general “age-and gender-matched” population.

From the study:

A majority of Veteran suicides are among those age 50 years and older.

“While the percentage of all suicides reported as Veterans has decreased, the number of suicides has increased,”

So most of the suicides appear to have nothing to with Iraq or Afghanistan and the suicide rate among is declining compared to the general population. WTF, this looks like CBS presenting good news as bad news.

thanks,for the actual information.

As far as puzzling goes, what I find puzzling is why people simply post anything that they want to make up, any worthless unfounded piece of misleading drivel, which then requires someone else, such as you, to refute them.

I just don’t get it.

There’s probably something wrong with that kind of person.

This is very sad.

PTSD among the general population? Check. My life is a personal study of this. Not fun. Treatment likely ineffective, even IF you can get what is needed according to current protocols.

On rampant gun violence. A semiautomatic weapon was used -AT A GUN RANGE- and then the shooter fled! Where were all the good men with guns that the NRA speaks of as the antidote to this? [I hate even asking ... but this is part of the 'debate.']

And, finally, I am wondering about how all this interrelates? Ex-military gun violence, PTSD, gun violence in the general population, and mental illness. With increasing complexity, clearly.

Mary,

Comparing suicide rates among vets who seek treatment to the general population is pointless. It would have more meaning if it were compared to those in the general population that sought similar treatment.

We are supposed to admire all that killin’ done over there,

“Thank you for your service!!!”

but be shocked that he was killed in such a manner here…?

“Gun control now!!!”

Yes, our society is screwed up big time.

9/2012

There has been an 18 percent increase in suicide among active duty military members over the past year alone. Among men in the general population ages 17-60, suicide represents 7 percent of deaths but 20 percent of deaths among men of this age in the military. And while veterans represent 10 percent of the U.S. general population, 20 percent of suicides in America occur in this population group.

Horrible situation, no doubt.

The more people we have in this country (Now 300 million) the more mentally ill we encounter. I don’t have an answer.

It’s also puzzling that there would be an attempt to sidetrack or trivialize the conversation.

An appalling rate of suicide among a segment of the population presumably comprised of people equipped with courage, skills, training, and physical strength; with access to a healthcare system specifically designed to serve their needs; and on whom the country claims to rely for its security should be the primary concern,

This is one of those strange events where coincidence and karma, or ‘just desserts’, appear so close together that our human identity comes suddenly into focus. It’s about how closely, even if ephemerally, we are all interconnected and how our actions determine our future.

It also points to the sheer craziness of how a person who kills 160 people is considered to be ‘honorable’, or in any way deserving of our respect, or even our sympathy.

Then again, Kyle, a killer, might very well be a inadvertent hero by showing the deviant American public, filled with hatred rage and superstition, that if you kill 160 people, you will probably die by a bullet from the one whom you are attempting to help. How, in any sense of psychological well-being, could a killer help a depressed person?

Maybe that deviance is the mental illness we should really be looking into

Yes, these are the contradictions that American society ignores. Like guns mean safety. This is the sort of thing that makes many of us feel quite crazy. And the whole society seem psychotic. It’s such a mess.

H L Menckens comment about WW1 vets during the Bonus Army’s march in DC, in the 1932!

“In the sad aftermath that always follows a great war, there is nothing sadder than the surprise of the returned soldiers when they discover that they are regarded generally as public nuisances. And not too honest.” —H.L. Mencken

Mary,

This is another apples to oranges comparison. The distribution of 17 to 60 year olds in the military is NOT at all similar to the general population from 17 to 60.

I read the article linked to in this story.

http://www.va.gov/opa/docs/Suicide-Data-Report-2012-final.pdf

Percentage of Suicides by Age and Veteran Status
Age Group Non-Veteran Veteran VHA Veteran
<29 21.6% 6.0% 3.0%
30 – 39 19.3% 9.1% 5.2%

Puzzling why someone would accuse others of making things up when they obviously didn't read the post.

Americans involved in wars against foreigners are trained to consider their victims as less than human, which makes them easier to kill. I’m no psychologist, but I’m sure that this degradation of other humans and then the killing of them contributes to mental issues later.

Kyle referred to Iraqis defending their country against a US assault as “savages.”

DailyMail

Kyle . . . new book: American Sniper. In its pages, he described the men – 255 by his account – he shot during four tours in Iraq as ‘savages.’

‘The way they live day-to-day as far as the violence they commit on American troops – the beheadings, the rape of innocent villagers and townspeople, just to intimidate them. They live by putting fear into other people’s hearts. Civilized people just don’t act that way,’ Mr Kyle told Mr O’Reilly.

The ‘savage’ label applied only to insurgents, he said. They were different from the Iraqi civilians who he tried to protect.

Karma can be a reeal bitch, i suppose

Mary. Thanks for relentlessly trying to correct misinformation. I am a Viet Vet and there really is no answer. We were left to deal with it, just like my father (WWII) and grandfather (WWI). My group was able to start PTSD recognition and therapy. It doesn’t seem to help much, looking at the evidence. I would also like to add a comment on the “over 50″ crowd of vets. I read a study where one reason for this was the possibility that vets got things under control, basically not dealing with it through working. After retirement, PTSD will reassert itself (so to speak). To the remark that Kyle was a killer and a)got what he deserved, b) undeserving, c)fill in the blank with prejudicial comment, Kyle noted he did not receive medals for “saving” lives as a sniper. He stated he was troubled by the deaths he caused, but tried to tell himself he was saving soldiers and civilians as a result. I expect snark on this.
وعبد ألاأنت خنزر

Not just Americans as it turns out.

He became known among his fellow SEALS as “The Legend.”

The enemy was less complimentary.

In Ramadi, insurgents put an $80,000 bounty on his head and branded him “Al-Shaitan Ramadi” — “The Devil of Ramadi.”

But Obama’s US and our puppet Somalia are the only two countries in the world which hold that children are less than human: That is, that children are not worthy of Human Rights.

And to stress the point, President Obama keeps killing children with drones: This ensures that American gun nuts will continue to Mass Murder schoolchildren.

The photo of Obama firing a firearm will probably inspire another school shooting, sooner than later.

leave the real counseling to the professionals.

support is fine, but not to present oneself as something they are not.

This Kyle guy was off the rails despite the throngs of bleating Americans ‘thanking him for his service’

First off, to knowingly kill bunches of humans — who we label enemy — and to become inured to it, even proud, with rationalizations to match — labels this guy a sociopath, regardless of how humble his neighbors say he was

Secondly, that he re-upped four times to Iraq because of all his self justifying reasons — and trying for the super duper sniper record I suppose, and legend status — is the behavior of a SICKO. That his command officers abetted his sick fantasies speaks volumes about their own lack of judgment, specifically and probably generally.

That he piggybacked his legend killer status into self publicity as well as a business involving, marginally hidden — the vicarious pleasure of killing other humans, gives the lie as to just how humble this damaged human really was.

Finally, as a mark of his probable narcissism as well as basic ignorance of PTSD in veterans, he very probably thought his celebrity status alone and having ‘dealt’ with MH issues himself qualified him to prognosticate and treat those with PTSD (and maybe a weekend training course) . So he engaged in behavior, and fatally endangered his friend by including him in the adventure, so absolutely contrary to both any kind of therapeutic common sense, or common sense at all for that matter. He took a very fragile PTSD-suffering vet out for some SHOOTING — the very activity that was likely to trigger reactive symptoms.

So was Kyle just a stupid Joe convinced by his own hype and that of his adoring public. Or an arrogant but ignorant Joe who knew how to put on a good act. Or a well compensated SICKO who constantly slid through the system, in part, because the system needs ‘success’ like him to promote the righteousness of the America way.

I’d love to see his own psychiatric files.

And I don’t thank him for his service.

It also points to the sheer craziness of how a person who kills 160 people is considered to be ‘honorable’, or in any way deserving of our respect, or even our sympathy.

Yes, but they’re not “people”, they’re terrorists, who hide in our bushes and behind our trash cans! Now, who decides they’re terrorists? Well, that would be the commander in chief with his kill list, and of course the president ALWAYS deserves our respect, even when he is killing other “people.”

How, in any sense of psychological well-being, could a killer help a depressed person?

I suppose by trying to convince a fellow “thank you for your service” soldier that the killing done “over there” was justified, good, honorable and oh-so-right. Well, I guess that soldier figured, okey dokey, if killing is so honorable, here you go…

Great post.

So was Kyle just a stupid Joe convinced by his own hype and that of his adoring public. Or an arrogant but ignorant Joe who knew how to put on a good act. Or a well compensated SICKO who constantly slid through the system, in part, because the system needs ‘success’ like him to promote the righteousness of the America way.

All three. Our society has devolved into a militaristic state that mindlessly exalts any member of the military, no matter who they are or what they did. Look at the super bowl last night, I was saddened and disturbed by the militaristic, almost nazi-rally-like display. All societies eventually fall apart from their own hubris. America will fall too, it’s only a matter of time.

When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything gets treated like a nail……when the only tool you have is killing, everyone gets treated like an “enemy”…..medicine wheel comes around kyle……let’s go back to sgt york as our military hero, not a braggart bully…..ty

Thanks. I missed the Super Bowl and from what you say I guess I don’t regret it. I agree that the US is headed down the historical pathway of one or the other fascist paradigms that have gone before. I think that co-exists comfortably with plutocracy.

I would think that, regardless of our opinions on the wars and the military, if they’re producing substantial numbers of military and ex-military people perpetrating violence against themselves or others, that we should at least be able to agree that we have a problem. We’ll never get anywhere arguing that there’s some statistic or other that tells us the numbers just aren’t high enough to warrant concern.

The military has a history of denying/underdiagnosing/undertreating/postponing acknowledging symptoms and syndromes, both physical and psychological of it’s wars. Impact on the budget is one main factor. Reliance on the powerlessness of individual vets to advocate for themselves, or organize to advocate in numbers generally creates a lag time in addressing these issues — in the long run that’s probably not money saved, but I’m not an expert. Whether this is a system that is rotting from it’s head, I don’t know that either.

Personally I’d cut whatever military budget was necessary, within currently authorized spending, from hardware to overall personnel, to do what is necessary to adequately provide services for vets who suffer symptoms. Oh yeah, I’d also convert the mission of the military from active aggression to passive protection. And mandate a 50% cut in expenditures overall within 10 years. Bwahahaahaha.

edit

Thank you, DonS. Words fail me, but Chris Kyle’s enshrinement as a hero indicates that a gnawing cancer is at work in this country’s heart.

I tend to seek middle ground when it comes to discerning between hero or monster. He was a human being, flawed like all of us. He probably had both good and bad traits just like many of us.

It’s sad though unsurprising that he lost his life with the same instrument that he used to take the lives of others.

The military is pretty good at sweeping anything under the rug that might interfere with the mission. That includes the needs of the individuals they expect to carry out those very same missions.

One of the biggest gifts Manning and Assange gave was shedding light on the fact that the military found it acceptable to treat war like a video game or that the military would call those that complained that they were having problems with our actions and the loss of innocent lives as “whiners.” The military has done an incredibly poor job handling the mental health needs of people in the field.

What does the Arabic say?

“It was my duty to shoot, and I don’t regret it,” he wrote. “My shots saved several Americans, whose lives were clearly worth more than that woman’s twisted soul.”

Kyle on a woman he shot who was pulling a grenade. A woman trying to kill Americans who were occupying and killing Iraqis. This was early in his military service. He calls her twisted. Without irony.

Indeed.

How did this become a discussion about suicide when the story is a double homicide?

Kyle wrote of being at peace with his work and his faith.

“When I die, God is going to hold me accountable for everything I’ve done on earth,” Kyle wrote at the close of his book, adding: “But in that backroom or whatever it is when God confronts me with my sins, I do not believe any of the kills I had during the war will be among them. Everyone I shot was evil. I had good cause on every shot. They all deserved to die.”

Came from an article in the LA Times.

He never stated he was troubled by the deaths he caused. He thought the people he killed were evil and certainly not human.

What this incident says to me is this:

*an EXPERT SHOT with loads of training and experience

*has a LOADED GUN ON HIM

*in a location that permits public showing of such a gun

************STILL CANNOT PROTECT HIMSELF FROM A SHOOTER****************

So, what flipping chance does a school teacher or sound asleep person with NO real experience shooting guns have?

Zippo.

I think guns are stupid. They are good for killing if you are the aggressor, and nearly totally flipping useless if you are not.

I have nothing but contempt for someone who stated publicly that he didn’t consider those whose lives he took to be people, and then profited from his escapades as a professional killer by writing a book. The fate he met was one that he richly deserved.

To your point and Greenwarrior’s –

First, I can see what kind of a salacious pot boiler our departed warrior has ghosted. I doubt I’ve missed much in not reading it.

Kyle’s apparent moral certainty does not speak to much of an evolved being, perhaps. What it does indicate to me is an individual fully indoctrinated into the military killer’s code, and then some.

I suppose I should feel a bit icky about speaking about the dead, but he obviously had zero reluctance to consign the dead, most particularly those he sent to their deaths, to some subhuman category. Hard to think it would be fair if he would object to others taking issue with his ethic

I agree totally with you. One friend drank himself to death at 40. Single occupant car fatalities are also hard to prove as suicides. Watch Huston’s “Let there be light.”

Without denigrating your opinion as we can all be right, I believe people in my circle know more about him. I am, for one, puzzled about his attacks on Jesse Ventura, even though I did not care much for Ventura when I met him. He has spoken about his medals on other occasions. Many vets complain that the certificate does not state the actions taken saved lives, instead listing enemy soldiers killed.

I have trouble typing Arabic, but Abdul you’re a pig.